Our People Don´t Want Freedom (yet)

Zawoyo

New member
At first I want to meantion, we just live in freedom only if we have an own state. As long as we don´t haven one we will always be slaves of others.


In the last days I watched a documentation about Chinas authors. One of them was Jiang Rong and he told something about his famous book "Wolf Totem."
In the describtion of his book I saw a very similar condition of the awareness of the Chineses and the Assyrians.
The author told: Most Chineses don´t want freedom, they don´t want to be free. Even the intellectuals are more interested in improving their own life and earning more money than in full freedom, although the intellectuals are these who are able to work for the freedom of the people.
That is because of all the oppression of their government.

We Assyrians are in a similar condition:
There are many of us who don´t want to be free. My opinion is, it´s because of the ill mentality by all the oppressions during the last centuries (more about our ill meantality here: http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36659.0 )
Many of us in the homeland are too afraid to try to be free and the others in the diaspora are absolutely satisfy with the 'more freedom than in the homeland' and there are even some who think they would be absolutely free in the western diaspora.
The mentality of many of us is so much coined by this centurities old opproession that they accept the world like it is, they don´t have the will to designing the world, at least the designing for our people.

Once a user asked the people something about their nationality. I wrote I am Assyrian by nationality than an other user attacked me by writing this:

They don't care what you think, but your nationality to the world is German. Accept it bro

Assyrian will be my nationality is such state exists. Until then, I'm owned by whatever state I live in because it is our choice to live there.

You are a German national and an ethnic Assyrian.  I don't tell you that.  The world you live in does. That's your description.  lol  Why do you have to attack me personally for the way the world is organized? lol What is your deal buddy?

This user didn´t want to understand that there is a difference between citizenship of a state and nationality. He rather want that the world tells him something about himself and he negatives to read somthing about how to define nationality and his right to determinate his nationality.

I want to make a conclusion here by quoting a great Assyrian artist:

At the city gate and by your fireside I have seen you prostrate yourself and worship your own freedom,
Even as slaves humble themselves before a tyrant and praise him though he slays them.
Ay, in the grove of the temple and in the shadow of the citadel I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of seeking freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfilment.

You shall be free indeed when your days are not without a care nor your nights without a want and a grief,
But rather when these things girdle your life and yet you rise above them naked and unbound.

And how shall you rise beyond your days and nights unless you break the chains which you at the dawn of your understanding have fastened around your noon hour?
In truth that which you call freedom is the strongest of these chains, though its links glitter in the sun and dazzle your eyes.

And what is it but fragments of your own self you would discard that you may become free?
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
You cannot erase it by burning your law books nor by washing the foreheads of your judges, though you pour the sea upon them.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed.
For how can a tyrant rule the free and the proud, but for a tyranny in their own freedom and a shame in their own pride?
And if it is a care you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed upon you.
And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.

Verily all things move wrthin your being in constant half embrace, the desired and the dreaded, the repugnant and the cherished, the pursued and that which you would escape.
These things move within you as lights and shadows in pairs that cling.
And when the shadow fades and is no more, the light that lingers becomes a shadow to another light.
And thus your freedom when it loses its fetters becomes itself the fetter of a greater freedom.


Kahlil Gibran on Freedom

shlome lebonoye
 
John_86 said:
At first I want to meantion, we just live in freedom only if we have an own state. As long as we don?t haven one we will always be slaves of others.


In the last days I watched a documentation about Chinas authors. One of them was Jiang Rong and he told something about his famous book "Wolf Totem."
In the describtion of his book I saw a very similar condition of the awareness of the Chineses and the Assyrians.
The author told: Most Chineses don?t want freedom, they don?t want to be free. Even the intellectuals are more interested in improving their own life and earning more money than in full freedom, although the intellectuals are these who are able to work for the freedom of the people.
That is because of all the oppression of their government.

We Assyrians are in a similar condition:
There are many of us who don?t want to be free. My opinion is, it?s because of the ill mentality by all the oppressions during the last centuries (more about our ill meantality here: http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36659.0 )
Many of us in the homeland are too afraid to try to be free and the others in the diaspora are absolutely satisfy with the 'more freedom than in the homeland' and there are even some who think they would be absolutely free in the western diaspora.
The mentality of many of us is so much coined by this centurities old opproession that they accept the world like it is, they don?t have the will to designing the world, at least the designing for our people.

Once a user asked the people something about their nationality. I wrote I am Assyrian by nationality than an other user attacked me by writing this:

This user didn?t want to understand that there is a difference between citizenship of a state and nationality. He rather want that the world tells him something about himself and he negatives to read somthing about how to define nationality and his right to determinate his nationality.

I want to make a conclusion here by quoting a great Assyrian artist:

At the city gate and by your fireside I have seen you prostrate yourself and worship your own freedom,
Even as slaves humble themselves before a tyrant and praise him though he slays them.
Ay, in the grove of the temple and in the shadow of the citadel I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of seeking freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfilment.

You shall be free indeed when your days are not without a care nor your nights without a want and a grief,
But rather when these things girdle your life and yet you rise above them naked and unbound.

And how shall you rise beyond your days and nights unless you break the chains which you at the dawn of your understanding have fastened around your noon hour?
In truth that which you call freedom is the strongest of these chains, though its links glitter in the sun and dazzle your eyes.
is not about we have been oprressed mentaliy, is about we don?t have balls to resist and fight for our freedom....I mean look kurds,doesnt have they been oppressed? of course they had,but they had always fight for their freedom...thats the problemJohniii
And what is it but fragments of your own self you would discard that you may become free?
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
You cannot erase it by burning your law books nor by washing the foreheads of your judges, though you pour the sea upon them.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed.
For how can a tyrant rule the free and the proud, but for a tyranny in their own freedom and a shame in their own pride?
And if it is a care you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed upon you.
And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.

Verily all things move wrthin your being in constant half embrace, the desired and the dreaded, the repugnant and the cherished, the pursued and that which you would escape.
These things move within you as lights and shadows in pairs that cling.
And when the shadow fades and is no more, the light that lingers becomes a shadow to another light.
And thus your freedom when it loses its fetters becomes itself the fetter of a greater freedom.


Kahlil Gibran on Freedom

shlome lebonoye

it is not about we have been oprressed mentaliy, it is about we don?t have balls to resist and fight for our freedom....I mean look  at kurds they have been opressed as much as we have if not more,but yet they have always fight for their freedom...thats the problemJohniii

 
khayaatour said:
it is not about we have been oprressed mentaliy, it is about we don?t have balls to resist and fight for our freedom....

The case with the balls is also because of the mentality thing.

khayaatour said:
I mean look  at kurds they have been opressed as much as we have if not more,but yet they have always fight for their freedom...thats the problemJohniii

Okay, lets say the Kurds are oppressed like us. And let us say that 5% of an oppressed society start with fighting for peace and freedom.
We know the Kurds are much much more than Assyrian.
I am not so good in math but its clear that 5% of Kurds are much much more persons than 5% of Assyrians.
And there is also the fact that our number in our homeland is very small. That means if you start today an armed fight against all our enemies than there will be no Assyrians in a few month.

Other facts = other condition
Other condition = other strategy

 
John_86 said:
The case with the balls is also because of the mentality thing.

Okay, lets say the Kurds are oppressed like us. And let us say that 5% of an oppressed society start with fighting for peace and freedom.
We know the Kurds are much much more than Assyrian.
I am not so good in math but its clear that 5% of Kurds are much much more persons than 5% of Assyrians.
And there is also the fact that our number in our homeland is very small. That means if you start today an armed fight against all our enemies than there will be no Assyrians in a few month.

Other facts = other condition
Other condition = other strategy

You said it right there in the end John,  Fact is, Assyrians have NO power back home to even become free.  We don't have the numbers, the arms, and mostly the support of other nations.  Also, it was already written in the Iraq Constitution (forgot the article number/name) that there will be no autonomous region ("free") within Iraq.  So politically the best we can have are seats in the Iraqi parliament to gain some power in the country.  I'm afraid your vision of freedom is dead my friend.  I too don't want to admit it but you only live once and its time to move on and figure out what to make the best with what we have. 
 
My opinion is our consciousness must be more affected by freedom and education.
Its not enough to live in freedom and its not enough to be educated - We have to be affected by freedom and education.
And we must build at frist a strong diaspora Assyria (like Rumtaya said) to be able to build an Assyria in our homeland.
 
John_86 said:
My opinion is our consciousness must be more affected by freedom and education.
Its not enough to live in freedom and its not enough to be educated - We have to be affected by freedom and education.
And we must build at frist a strong diaspora Assyria (like Rumtaya said) to be able to build an Assyria in our homeland.

And how exactly will this be played out?

Lets say:  In the next 10 years, we forget all our rifts and build a strong, inter-global diaspora community with footholds in USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia.  Let's say all four areas represent the diaspora x-number of thousands or millions of Assyrians worldwide...thus Rumtaya's point.  Then what?  Do we THEN approach the Iraqi Government and say that "ok, we are united now, can we have our land/freedom back?"  Doesn't work that way my friend, I'm sorry to admit.  From my opinion, that ship has passed because truth is if we did that NOW, while everything was being settled, then yes, we would be able to push for freedom and who knows what else.  But our people do not really want it because if they did we wouldn't have the rifts we have now.  So, I agree with your post John, just not the (yet) part.
 
rumrum said:
And how exactly will this be played out?

Lets say:  In the next 10 years, we forget all our rifts and build a strong, inter-global diaspora community with footholds in USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia.  Let's say all four areas represent the diaspora x-number of thousands or millions of Assyrians worldwide...thus Rumtaya's point.   Then what?  Do we THEN approach the Iraqi Government and say that "ok, we are united now, can we have our land/freedom back?"  Doesn't work that way my friend, I'm sorry to admit. 

Dont forget Russia and all the other Assyrians from the old soviet states ;)

If we have our strong diaspora Assyria we are able to influence the politics in all these areas. And maybe our influence is strong enough to make them working for our goals ... at least a little bit ...

rumrum said:
From my opinion, that ship has passed because truth is if we did that NOW, while everything was being settled, then yes, we would be able to push for freedom and who knows what else.  But our people do not really want it because if they did we wouldn't have the rifts we have now.  So, I agree with your post John, just not the (yet) part.

The time will show it, ahuni.
 
John_86 said:
Dont forget Russia and all the other Assyrians from the old soviet states ;)

If we have our strong diaspora Assyria we are able to influence the politics in all these areas. And maybe our influence is strong enough to make them working for our goals ... at least a little bit ...

The time will show it, ahuni.

You're not getting my point John, the time has PASSED whether you accept it or not.  Laws and the constitution were already written, how do you plan on changing them?
 
John_86 said:
There is always more than just one chance. I believe in it.

I used too as well but there comes a time where reality kicks in my friend and you have to play the cards you are dealt with.
 
John I truly admire your passion, i like everyone else wish we took our land back.
But we lost that battle a long time ago akhoni as Rumrum said its over. Our fight today is surviving extinction.

If and i mean if as in a miracle one day a leader would arise from us I'm talking about a leader like Fraidon Atouraya who took 200 men back with him to Russia for military training then we might have hope.

Can you imagine what kind of man he was, i understand those were different times but right now i cant get  5 Assyrian men get together for a fishing trip.

It would take a miracle, we are so segregated its not funny, by tribes, churches and political parties.

I wish i was wrong and you were right but there is no hope we are just trying to keep our heads above water.
 
We can not say that its not possible because the Jews were in a very similar situation.
and today they have their own sate.

They had an advantage compared to our people: They migrated much earlier (centuries) than our people to the diaspora, especially to the diaspora where they can live in very sophisticated communities, e.g. in European states.

So they can develop their ill mentality to a healthy mentality by being affected by freedom and education, so that they where able to create healthy thoughs and especially a healthy patriotism.

Than they created their strong diaspora-Israel and after that they created their state Israel in their homeland by the help of their strong diaspora-Israel.

Yes, You are right by saing we are too separated and we have to fight against extinction but the life is not just a fight. There are processes in the people, even in a fight. And we just need the right processes for a healthy mentality.

We just have to bear the fight long enough until the process has made our right healthy mentality.

shlome umthonoye
 
The Assyrian question is not a question of political will, military might, or even a "slave" mentality so eloquently presented by others (of which more slave mentality exists in the west than in the east that's why there is so much conflict) it is a matter of money. Little to no resources are attainable by the people. The enemies of the people use the little resources we can conjure up to our disadvantage (different names, religious sects, political parties, ect...) and that is why dearies I'm sorry to inform you we shall never achieve statehood... :imsorry:
 
Our Diaspora Assyrians are no poor people. I dont want to give a statement if this money is enough for our case or not. But I dont deny that money plays a rule too.
The fact is all the money is nearly useless for our nation if its in the hands of not interested Assyrian ppl in the case of their nation, ppl who are at first baznaya or so and than Assyrian, ppl who think just about their church, ppl who are more gabonoye than umthonoye, and so on.

... So the mentality is a very important factor in the case of our problems.
 
I agree and long ago came to terms with our "nation" not even being an unrealized dream. It is history, plain and simple. As globalization takes its toll you me and every other "Assyrian" will assimilate into our various cultures. And seeing the rate of assimilation of people that come over from the mid east it is quite shameful. If you hold out hope on our "nation" your zeal or nativity whichever it may be is admirable. Just do yourself a favor and done get too "caught up" in it. 
 
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