I was reading History of LGBT on Wikipedia.

Until I came across the Ancient Assyrians :O

I wish I lived in Ancient Assyria :/

LGBT rights were better 6000 years ago.

Gosh.. we are really backwards as we thought!
 
Yes, we were actually supportive of LGBT rights back then. I've read that article too and it made me blissful - My ancestors supported me.

So sad what Judaeo-Christianity did to us. It retrograded the Assyrians to an extent.
 
Neon said:
Yes, we were actually supportive of LGBT rights back then. I've read that article too and it made me blissful - My ancestors supported me.

So sad what Judaeo-Christianity did to us. It retrograded the Assyrians to an extent.

Yes, true.. Ancient Israel was a homophobic society because of the torah and torah is connected to the bible which makes the majority of Assyrians hom ophobic today.

So sad. :(
 
barcyy said:
You could easily edit that. What makes you think it isn't a whole heap of bs? Your source isn't credible.

I was just going to say, that is so pro-homosexuality, I couldn't just take it as credible. I mean there was always some form of homosexuality going on, but it is not at the massive scale this Wikipedia entry is portraying it.

Sounds to me like LGBT advocates influenced this article. 

ASHOOR
 
barcyy said:
You could easily edit that. What makes you think it isn't a whole heap of bs? Your source isn't credible.
You people probably always rely on Wikipedia, but now when their articles say that we accepted homosexuals (with provided sources), it is "BS" all of a sudden? :blink:

1. Ancient history was mostly accepting of homosexuality, from Greece, Rome, to Persia and Mesopotamia.

2. You can obviously see that it is a well SOURCED article with citations here and there.

3. Because of our Abrahamic religion, we naturally see all of this as taboo (gays, trans, drag queens). It's installed in our mindset. I can see why you reacted that way. You're in shock.

4. The ancients did a lot of "crazy" and anomalous things, and homosexuality was among them. We skinned people alive, for instance, and yet youse can't believe that we accepted homosexuality?.... :mellow:

ASHOOR said:
Sounds to me like LGBT advocates influenced this article. 

ASHOOR
Yep, and those Wikipedians who wrote about Assyrians flaying their prisoners alive are pro-skinning nutters. :whistling:
 
Not well sourced. I can easily add in my own sources and claim they are credible. Show me a document of this occurring which is certified by CREDIBLE historians and I will accept it. Otherwise, it's bs and will continue to be that way unless you prove it did occur.
 
barcyy said:
Not well sourced. I can easily add in my own sources and claim they are credible. Show me a document of this occurring which is certified by CREDIBLE historians and I will accept it. Otherwise, it's bs and will continue to be that way unless you prove it did occur.
For your sake, I dug one source that the Wikipedia article was based on. And even the article I linked is heavily sourced itself (from books). Please read through the whole article: http://epistle.us/hbarticles/neareast.html

I quoted the more crucial parts:

Two laws from a Middle Assyrian code, from Assur (12th century B.C. but probably copies or extensions of earlier laws going back to at least the 15th century B.C.8), also mention homosexuality. They speak of a ?seignior,? someone of high social rank in the community, and his ?neighbor,? someone of equal social status who lived in the vicinity.9 Later scholars simply view these laws as applying to any Assyrian man.10 Table A, paragraph 19 reads (translated by Theophile Meek): ?If a seignior [an Assyrian man] started a rumor against his neighbor [another citizen living nearby] in private, saying, ?People have lain repeatedly with him,? or he said to him in a brawl in the presence of (other) people, ?People have lain repeatedly with you; I will prosecute you,? since he is not able to prosecute (him) (and) did not prosecute (him), they shall flog that seignior fifty (times) with staves (and) he shall do the work of the king for one full month; they shall castrate him [lit. ?shall cut off?] and he shall also pay one talent of lead.?11

Harsh punishment was often decreed in ancient times, e.g. in this law code including death and cutting off ears, noses, lips and fingers (Cf. A,5,9,12). The meaning of igadimus (?shall cut off?) is ambiguous and has also been translated as ?he shall be cut off? from the community (G.R. Driver and J.C. Miles, 1935) and ?they shall cut off? his beard or hair as a form of branding (Chicago Assyrian Dictionary, gadamu, G, 8)12 The preceding prohibition (A,18) in this law code deals with false (or unproven) rumors spread about a man?s wife sleeping around (like a prostitute); and its wording and punishment are very similar to A,19, except there is no ?cutting off? and less blows are specified. In both cases, the lord?s reputation was at stake in the face of a grave slur that had been circulated against him.13

Table A, paragraph 20 deals with a physical act done, not just a rumor: ?If a seignior [an Assyrian man] lay with his neighbor [another citizen], when they have prosecuted him (and) convicted him [the first citizen], they shall lie with him (and) turn him into a eunuch.?14 This describes a situation where a man has forced sex upon a local resident or business partner, who then has the option of bringing a charge against him. Noticeably, the perpetrator is punished while the victim is not; so the crime here is rape. Homosexuality itself is not condemned, nor looked upon as immoral or disordered. Anyone could visit a prostitute or lay with another male, as long as false rumors or forced sex were not involved with another Assyrian male. Still, both of these laws suggest that for a male to take the submissive woman?s role in same-sex intercourse was looked down upon as shameful and despised.15

Pictorial and literary references in ancient Mesopotamia show acceptance of some forms of homosexuality, but wariness toward others. Anal intercourse was freely pictured in figurative art in the ancient cities of Uruk, Assur, Babylon, and Susa from the 3rd millennium B.C. on ? and images show that it was practiced as part of religious ritual. Both Zimri-lin (king of Mari) and Hammurabi (king of Babylon) had male lovers, which the queen of Zimri-lin mentions matter-of-factly in a letter. The Almanac of Incantations contained prayers favoring on an equal basis the love of a man for a woman, of a woman for a man, and of a man for man.16 (Lesbian love is not mentioned, probably because of the low status of women in ancient times, when women were basically considered property, and adultery was considered a trespass against the husband?s property. A husband was free to fornicate, but a wife could be put to death for the same thing.17) The Summa alu, a manual used to predict the future, sought to do this in some cases on the basis of sexual acts, five of which are homosexual:

?If a man copulates with his equal from the rear, he becomes the leader among his peers and brothers."

"If a man yearns to express his manhood while in prison and thus, like a male cult-prostitute, mating with men becomes his desire, he will experience evil."

"If a man copulates with an assinnu [a male cult-prostitute], trouble will leave him (?)."

"If a man copulates with a gerseqqu [a male courtier, or royal attendant], worry will possess him for a whole year but will then leave him."

"If a man copulates with a house-born slave, a hard destiny will befall him.?18


The fact that different kinds of homoerotic pairing will occur is taken for granted. What mattered was the role and the status of a partner, especially the passive partner ? and the anticipated ramifications in each case. To penetrate a male who was of equal status or a cult prostitute was thought to bring good fortune; but copulation with a royal attendant, a fellow prisoner, or a household slave was thought to probably spell trouble.19
 
oh now I know why Abraham left Ur, because "Anal intercourse was freely pictured in figurative art in the ancient cities of Uruk, Assur, Babylon, and Susa from the 3rd millennium B.C. on"
 
Domanic said:
No offense but is their any evidence for Abraham existence?

There is some evidence here and there. But, at the same time there is a significant lack of evidence here and there as well.

Well, no offence taken, (were you offended?). It was suppose to be funny, but at the same time serious. I mean it explains why the Abrahamic religions are not very tolerant with homosexuals.
 
Domanic said:
No offense but is their any evidence for Abraham existence?
He was only sourced in the bible. No credible historicity, or at least nothing outside the bible.

ins001 said:
oh now I know why Abraham left Ur, because "Anal intercourse was freely pictured in figurative art in the ancient cities of Uruk, Assur, Babylon, and Susa from the 3rd millennium B.C. on"
Regardless of anything, that is still obscene. People were too ostentatious back then. Lol.
 
Thailand is very tolerant of them.  Katoeys (ladyboys) are everywhere and quite often, better looking than the girls.  Scary how good some of them look.  Before anyone asks, no I did not get caught out when I lived in Thailand but that was more because I realised that I could not tell them apart in a darkened nightclub so I wouldn't risk it.  The only bars I ever went to without my Thai friends were the ones who did discriminate and not allow katoeys in the bar.
 
No one in my entire family is bi or gay except me. That theory of relatives falls flat. But the hormone or dna influence sounds far more plausible.

Edit: The comment section has far more perspective than this video, honestly.

Also,


Assyrian Nationalist said:
Until I came across the Ancient Assyrians :O

I wish I lived in Ancient Assyria :/

LGBT rights were better 6000 years ago.

Gosh.. we are really backwards as we thought!

It's apparently true. But back then they were crazy superstitious, and the main reason they had same-sex intercourse was related more to omen and position of power than the fact that they loved each other. But yeah, it was apparently punishable to rape other men and boys, accuse others of being male sluts and incest. They also allegedly had anal sex with their wives to prevent them from getting pregnant.

Sounds good. Polytheists seemed more civilised than monotheists, right? (besides the whole taking hearts out of prisoners of war...)



(Unless I read the hammu akkadian tablet on it, I'm going to pick it with a huge grain of salt)
 
It does seem to sway to one side. Anyway, maybe it's dependent on time period but I was reading Ancient Assyrian laws and:

I.20. If a man have intercourse with his brother-in-arms, they shall turn him into a eunuch.

 
Qi?ta said:
Sounds good. Polytheists seemed more civilised than monotheists, right? (besides the whole taking hearts out of prisoners of war...)
They were civilized when it came to their acceptance of homosexuality. Just that, really. Too bad they ruined their credibility by flaying prisoners, taking their hearts out, etc.

Mr. Tambourine Man said:
It does seem to sway to one side. Anyway, maybe it's dependent on time period but I was reading Ancient Assyrian laws and:

I.20. If a man have intercourse with his brother-in-arms, they shall turn him into a eunuch.
It all depended on the type of a person the man had intercourse with. Men were allowed to sleep with (male) prostitutes and men of equal social class. But they frowned upon guys who had sex with fellow soldiers (as that law codes prescribes), royal attendants, slaves, fellow prisoners, and men who were bottoms/submissive. They thought bad omens would come to these type of men. Worse even, they would punish them severely (castration).

Assyrian laws were too extreme and drastic. No penalty at all for something, and yet full on mutilation for a thing similar to that 'something'.
 
Neon said:
Dawkins make good points (I do like his "gay uncle" theory). But I think people are gay because they get the "heterosexual" feature or hormone from their opposite gender parents. So, in turn, they come out as gay.

so you're a mutation? ( ^ ?? ^)
 
mrzurnaci said:
so you're a mutation? ( ^ ?? ^)

I'm not anti-gay by any means and I can respect people doing whatever it is in the privacy of their homes but I dislike the legitimisation of homosexuality's normality. Our entire genetic determinism is predicated on the preservation of the human race, which entails heterosexual reproduction. Any deviation from this genetic disposition is a genetic abnormality (but don't mistake abnormality for all those negative connotations associated with it.

I don't like the gays that get all in your face like, 'I'm gay, proud, you should be gay..'. It's becoming too excessive, especially when I see children taken to these parades and made to believe they are homosexuals at the age of three because their parents think it's cute and diverse.

The homosexuals who go about their business ordinarily and live lives much like a heterosexual couple, I don't really mind. I am opposed to homosexual adoption however, but that's another issue.
 
Mr. Tambourine Man said:
I'm not anti-gay by any means and I can respect people doing whatever it is in the privacy of their homes but I dislike the legitimisation of homosexuality's normality. Our entire genetic determinism is predicated on the preservation of the human race, which entails heterosexual reproduction. Any deviation from this genetic disposition is a genetic abnormality (but don't mistake abnormality for all those negative connotations associated with it.

I don't like the gays that get all in your face like, 'I'm gay, proud, you should be gay..'. It's becoming too excessive, especially when I see children taken to these parades and made to believe they are homosexuals at the age of three because their parents think it's cute and diverse.

The homosexuals who go about their business ordinarily and live lives much like a heterosexual couple, I don't really mind. I am opposed to homosexual adoption however, but that's another issue.
What about intersex gay couples? One of them can get pregnant and is technically male. Would you be against the parents raising their own genetical child?
 
Mr. Tambourine Man said:
I'm not anti-gay by any means and I can respect people doing whatever it is in the privacy of their homes but I dislike the legitimisation of homosexuality's normality. Our entire genetic determinism is predicated on the preservation of the human race, which entails heterosexual reproduction. Any deviation from this genetic disposition is a genetic abnormality (but don't mistake abnormality for all those negative connotations associated with it.
Yes, homosexuality is not "normal" per se. But it's not a bad, harmful thing. It doesn't affect a person's intelligence, behaviour and personality.

Humans are designed to procreate, yes. But just because some don't prefer to have children we should see them negatively and that they shouldn't be proud of themselves? A straight person should be proud too. I won't stand in his/her way.

And fear not, homosexuality will always be a periphery. Heterosexuals will always be dominant. You shouldn't use the "homosexuality: no procreation" train of thought. You know that, evolutionary speaking, heterosexuals will always be the majority. Maybe homosexuals exist to moderate the world's population? That's a pro for humankind. You can think of that idea too.

I don't like the gays that get all in your face like, 'I'm gay, proud, you should be gay..'. It's becoming too excessive, especially when I see children taken to these parades and made to believe they are homosexuals at the age of three because their parents think it's cute and diverse.
Yes, some gays overdo it. Maybe there is a reason why, since there exists so many loud and ostentatious homophobes that tell them how "wrong" or "sinful" they are. So they get in our face in spite of these people. But then again, two wrongs don't make a right.

I've been taken to the most "straightest" things when I was a kid. Older guys even made me watch straight porn. How come I didn't become straight? Being gay is not environmental (people argue for that, although I refuse to believe it). I was actually exposed more to women when I was young. Heck, I've seen vaginas first and more frequently than I've ever seen penises. Lol. So, because of my rather non-gay environment, shouldn't I be straight?

The homosexuals who go about their business ordinarily and live lives much like a heterosexual couple, I don't really mind. I am opposed to homosexual adoption however, but that's another issue.
I actually do wish that more and more homosexuals don't see themselves any differently than heteros. They don't have to join parades and flaunt how "different" they are to heterosexuals when, in the same vein, they would yell things like "we're no different to you" - So there is hypocrisy. The LGBT community, anyway, has become reminiscent of feminism and other flawed, modern subcultures.

I respect your views, anyway. At least you are honest and rational. There are some users here who are neither of these when it comes to their views of homosexuality. So props to you. :)
 
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