I made an Assyrian Atheist and Agnostic page Aka. AAA

Assyrian_Man said:
:giggle: man...

you and the two others going on and on about religion and homosexuality in different threads  :razz:

It is quite normal to wish a blessing in your religion to a stranger, Allah ma3k, may God be with you, Alaha hawe menokh etc.. It shows respect. BUT there is a point where it becomes too much of projection and preaching, e.g. hey, remember man, Jesus died for your sins. The receivers, even if they are from other religions, accept it gladly. People wouldn't get pissed if a Hindu, Sikh or Indian would wish them blessings.. that's just prejudice you have towards religion and religious people.
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Lol...It's fun huh? These people just go on and on. I had to join in and let them know that not all Assyrians share their mindset. After all, most Assyrians don't agree with homos and irreligion. So it will be nice to challenge them. :biggrin:

Actually, I don't really mind it that much when people say "God bless you" (especially from a fellow Assyrian), but that doesn't mean I want to hear it often. And yes, the "Jesus died for you sins" part is a dealbreaker. Protestants tend to throw it around too much. It's just condescending to me.

And Brata Shleeta doesn't sound very "shleeta" to me...She is way too fidgety and hypo... (like, relax already...):lol:
 
I can assure you you will page will never get a like from me on Facebook, but good for you if others liked it already :)

But given all the energy and time you are spending on this, it would have been better spent on making a page about Assyrian history, genocide, recent suffering under ISIS. With the current page, you are trying to tell the world 'look, we don't believe in a God..." then?

On the other hand, being a Christian Assyrian (for the 99% of us or so) is a blessing, especially when everyone around you in the region is a Muslim. If that is not unique enough, I don't know what is? We are the the word of God's hands as it is claimed in the OT.

ASHOOR
 
Neon said:
I got a better one:

It was Cain and Abel, not Cain and Mabel. :D
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Sorry, I know this is not a religion thread and you threw that as a joke, but in case you didn't know, these two were brothers and not husband and wife. Even if they did have sex, it was before any written rules.


ASHOOR
 
ASHOOR said:
Sorry, I know this is not a religion thread and you threw that as a joke, but in case you didn't know, these two were brothers and not husband and wife. Even if they did have sex, it was before any written rules.
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I know. It was just a tongue in cheek humour in retaliation to "Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve".

I do agree that Assyrians are far off better being Christian than Muslim. We shouldn't even be compared to our neighboring Muslims, who've done the worst atrocities. Us being a Christian overall is still a major pro.

Islam was probably our second choice of religion, so I applaud the fact that we were strong enough to stay Christian (unlike Kurds and Persians).

To make it clear, I'm still a "cultural Christian". In fact, even the renowned antitheists like Richard Dawkins and Pat Condell also consider themselves "culturally Christian". They want our churches and books to be preserved, and they despise those "liberals" who want Christmas or Christianity off our streets and such. With that being said, they just don't believe in religion, or the fact that its events "happened".
 
ASHOOR said:
I can assure you you will page will never get a like from me on Facebook, but good for you if others liked it already :)

But given all the energy and time you are spending on this, it would have been better spent on making a page about Assyrian history, genocide, recent suffering under ISIS. With the current page, you are trying to tell the world 'look, we don't believe in a God..." then?

On the other hand, being a Christian Assyrian (for the 99% of us or so) is a blessing, especially when everyone around you in the region is a Muslim. If that is not unique enough, I don't know what is? We are the the word of God's hands as it is claimed in the OT.

ASHOOR
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:yourock:
 
mrzurnaci said:
did they forcefully Arabic down our throats...

Iranians were able to save themselves by translating the Qur'an and retaining the value of their culture.

There's also a word for this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shu%27ubiyya ...

Shu'ubiyyah (Arabic: ??????????) refers to the response by non-Arab Muslims to the privileged status of Arabs within the Ummah.

In Iran
Main article: Islamicization in post-conquest Iran

When used as a reference to a specific movement, the term refers to a response by Persian Muslims to the growing Arabization of Islam in the 9th and 10th centuries in Iran. It was primarily concerned with preserving Persian culture and protecting Persian identity. [3] The most notable effect of the movement was the survival of Persian language, the language of the Persians, to the present day. However, the movement never moved into apostasy and has its basis in the Islamic thought of equality of races and nations.

In the late 8th and early 9th centuries, there was a resurgence of Persian national identity. This came about after years of oppression by the Abbassid caliphate.[citation needed] The movement left substantial records in the form of Persian literature and new forms of poetry. Most of those behind the movement were Persian, but references to Egyptians, Berbers and Aramaeans are attested.[4]


Assyrians didn't work to preserve Sureth because most of the intellectual Assyrians translated their works from Syriac to Arabic...

The Shu'ubiya by Persians were done in response to Arabization whereas Assyrians learned Arabic to translate and talk to others who know Arabic...

Why do you think I stress against the use of Arabic amongst Assyrians?
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I can't believe that I didn't see this reply...

Seriously? Iran shouldn't be compared or brought up at all! For Christ's sake, these guys adopted the Arabic script -- Which is rather embarrassing, considering their history and rich empire. :ROFLMAO: They used to write in Persian runes in classical times. Instead of developing their runes script into the modern form they cowered to the Arabic orthography. Such a pity.

At least we Assyrians retained our Syriac/Aramaic script. Even if we have a bit of Indo-Iranian words here and there, we should be proud that we still kept our writing system and that we don't, instead, write in the Arabic script - This could've happened...

Back to the topic of this thread, that Assyrian atheist page (https://www.facebook.com/Assyrian-Atheists-%D9%85%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%A2%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86-1576227612656063/) has now over 5000 likes. I find this begrudging because the page is virtually in Arabic. It's also kinda ironic, because the most hostile people towards atheism are Arabic-speakers (Christian or Muslim). I really find it surprising (and intriguing) that this page has a lot of Arabicized atheists - Probably living in the Middle East (I doubt that they're from the West) as they speak their native language. At the same I'm bewildered that they call the page "Assyrian Atheists" when it doesn't even have noticeable Assyrian people (no Assyrian names for instance)...? ... :blink:
 
Neon said:
I can't believe that I didn't see this reply...

Seriously? Iran shouldn't be compared or brought up at all! For Christ's sake, these guys adopted the Arabic script -- Which is rather embarrassing, considering their history and rich empire. :ROFLMAO: They used to write in Persian runes in classical times. Instead of developing their runes script into the modern form they cowered to the Arabic orthography. Such a pity.

At least we Assyrians retained our Syriac/Aramaic script. Even if we have a bit of Indo-Iranian words here and there, we should be proud that we still kept our writing system and that we don't, instead, write in the Arabic script - This could've happened...

Back to the topic of this thread, that Assyrian atheist page (https://www.facebook.com/Assyrian-Atheists-%D9%85%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%A2%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86-1576227612656063/) has now over 5000 likes. I find this begrudging because the page is virtually in Arabic. It's also kinda ironic, because the most hostile people towards atheism are Arabic-speakers (Christian or Muslim). I really find it surprising (and intriguing) that this page has a lot of Arabicized atheists - Probably living in the Middle East (I doubt that they're from the West) as they speak their native language. At the same I'm bewildered that they call the page "Assyrian Atheists" when it doesn't even have noticeable Assyrian people (no Assyrian names for instance)...? ... :blink:
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Persian runes? what???

Persians never had their own writing system... They always used the Writing systems Assyrians used until Arabs and Islam...

Old Persian was written in Cuneiform and old Aramaic while Middle Persian was partly Syriac until switching to Arabic orthography.
 
mrzurnaci said:
Persian runes? what???

Persians never had their own writing system... They always used the Writing systems Assyrians used until Arabs and Islam...

Old Persian was written in Cuneiform and old Aramaic while Middle Persian was partly Syriac until switching to Arabic orthography.
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I stand corrected. Yes, they had their own cuneiform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Persian_cuneiform). Still, this doesn't contradict my point -- They did have their own script. Because of Islam, Persians changed their writing system. So it's not like they preserved their culture to the fullest.

 
Neon said:
I stand corrected. Yes, they had their own cuneiform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Persian_cuneiform). Still, this doesn't contradict my point -- They did have their own script. Because of Islam, Persians changed their writing system. So it's not like they preserved their culture to the fullest.
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Likely because they saw what a force Islam was and decided it was better to simply go with it but adapt it with Persian culture and society.

It was no different to how Persians adapted Mesopotamian/Assyrian culture to their own...

Pretty much a basic rule of evolution: survival of the fittest, those who adapt survive.
 
mrzurnaci said:
Likely because they saw what a force Islam was and decided it was better to simply go with it but adapt it with Persian culture and society.

It was no different to how Persians adapted Mesopotamian/Assyrian culture to their own...

Pretty much a basic rule of evolution: survival of the fittest, those who adapt survive.
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Yeah but Persians were a strong group. They had a large empire (perhaps more successful than ours). Why would they cower to Islamism and Arabic?

How come we didn't?
 
Neon said:
Yeah but Persians were a strong group. They had a large empire (perhaps more successful than ours). Why would they cower to Islamism and Arabic?

How come we didn't?
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Your empire was long gone when Islam started being in power. Your people might've already assimilated with the Medes or persians and then later adopted Christianity. As for persians, their empire was strong when Islam was rising so during muslim conquest, persians had their own self-rule or dynasties whatever you want to call it (In islamic history, persia is always referred to as "Balad fars al uthma" i.e. the great persia).

They adopted the arabic writing system because it's easier for expression, to learn and write compared to their old ways of writing. You guys didn't adopt it because you gave up your akkadian script for an easier script i.e. aramaic and arabic did the same anyways. So, you didn't adopt arabic script because your script already evolved and you didn't have to do so.
 
Googoo said:
Your empire was long gone when Islam started being in power. Your people might've already assimilated with the Medes or persians and then later adopted Christianity. As for persians, their empire was strong when Islam was rising so during muslim conquest, persians had their own self-rule or dynasties whatever you want to call it (In islamic history, persia is always referred to as "Balad fars al uthma" i.e. the great persia).
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As I said Persians were a strong bunch. They could've adopted any religion they want to. You said yourself, that they had dynasties and such. We didn't have that much when Islam ruled. Naturally, we would've easily converted and assimilated to Islam. But we didn't.

They adopted the arabic writing system because it's easier for expression, to learn and write compared to their old ways of writing. You guys didn't adopt it because you gave up your akkadian script for an easier script i.e. aramaic and arabic did the same anyways. So, you didn't adopt arabic script because your script already evolved and you didn't have to do so.
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The thing is, Persian had their own cuneiform script at that time (as I said above). Their script was as evolved as ours. Except, what they did, is ditch it and adopt Arabic.
 
Neon said:
As I said Persians were a strong bunch. They could've adopted any religion they want to. You said yourself, that they had dynasties and such. We didn't have that much when Islam ruled. Naturally, we would've easily converted and assimilated to Islam. But we didn't.
The thing is, Persian had their own cuneiform script at that time (as I said above). Their script was as evolved as ours. Except, what they did, is ditch it and adopt Arabic.
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Wrong, by the time Arabs came, Persians were using the Pahlavi script which was a modified Syriac alphabet...

So no, they never had their own script. How many times must I tell you that?
 
mrzurnaci said:
Wrong, by the time Arabs came, Persians were using the Pahlavi script which was a modified Syriac alphabet...

So no, they never had their own script. How many times must I tell you that?
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Okay, you're now nitpicking and creating false arguments. I never said that Persians weren't using the Syriac script. And frankly, that wasn't my point.

You're wrong. Persians had their own script (circa 500BC). They could've remained using it (or developing it) for the next 1000 years (when Islam arrived), but eventually they still switched to Arabic. Yes, they were using an alternative form of Syriac once. But them writing in Syriac wasn't my point. At the end of the day they still switched to Arabic, and this could've been avoided.
 
Neon said:
As I said Persians were a strong bunch. They could've adopted any religion they want to. You said yourself, that they had dynasties and such. We didn't have that much when Islam ruled. Naturally, we would've easily converted and assimilated to Islam. But we didn't.
The thing is, Persian had their own cuneiform script at that time (as I said above). Their script was as evolved as ours. Except, what they did, is ditch it and adopt Arabic.
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Yes, persians were a strong bunch and still are. Maybe because they converted to Islam so using arabic letters would make it easier to understand it better. I'm sure a lot of modern day Iraqi arabs were assyrian christians back then and converted especially maslawiya arabs, their dialect is so distinctive from the rest of the Iraqi dialects (baghdadi, basrawi etc) because it sounds aramaic.
 
Googoo said:
Yes, persians were a strong bunch and still are. Maybe because they converted to Islam so using arabic letters would make it easier to understand it better. I'm sure a lot of modern day Iraqi arabs were assyrian christians back then and converted especially maslawiya arabs, their dialect is so distinctive from the rest of the Iraqi dialects (baghdadi, basrawi etc) because it sounds aramaic.
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it sounds Aramaic but do they believe in their Assyrian/Mesopotamian history or heritage/background? I doubt it. They believe they're Arab from Arabia.
 
mrzurnaci said:
it sounds Aramaic but do they believe in their Assyrian/Mesopotamian history or heritage/background? I doubt it. They believe they're Arab from Arabia.
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Of course they do especially Maslawiya. They never say they're arab, they either saw maslawi or iraqi. The others know that they may have Mesopotamian/persian blood but, they adopt arabism because of the language they speak and heritage over the past hundreds of years. Honestly, if it wasn't for Ba'ath party especially in the 80s (pan-arabism) then they would distinguish themselves from the other arabs and stand out. Egyptians are this way, though Copts aren't arabs and the muslims have arab blood in them due to Islam, but, they always keep their Egyptian identity first and foremost so, Egypt altogether is not "just an arab country". I believe Iraqis and Egyptians are the only two arabic speaking countries that have an identity of their own compared to the other countries. One can group the levantine countries (except jordan) together, gulf together with jordan and north africa together (Levantine countries still have aramean/canaanite/phoenician culture for instance, Dabke and the morphology of their arabic. North african dialects cannot be understood by an Arab it still has the amazigh/berber sound to it and their culture is so different than middle easterners for instance, music and dancing.) So that, leaves Egypt and Iraq not fitting in with the groups.
 
Googoo said:
Yes, persians were a strong bunch and still are. Maybe because they converted to Islam so using arabic letters would make it easier to understand it better. I'm sure a lot of modern day Iraqi arabs were assyrian christians back then and converted especially maslawiya arabs, their dialect is so distinctive from the rest of the Iraqi dialects (baghdadi, basrawi etc) because it sounds aramaic.
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Maslawi Arabs were definitely Assyrians (specifically Chaldean).
 
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