God Bless the Westerners for Adopting these Haitian Orphans

A

ASHOOR

Administrator
Staff member
Which person from the Middle East (including our own Assyrians) would go through the trouble of wanting to adopt a kid from Haiti? worse yet, who would have this much love and passion for a kid that is not even from their color, country, faith etc.? And to travel all the way to Haiti during this earthquake messs? Forget it!

Well, not for the the Americans, Canadians and some Europeans!

Having followed the Haitian earthquake very closely, one of the issues that has been front and center is that of the 'Haitian orphans' and the great effort by thousands of US, Canadians and other European parents to adopt them. What a heart. What a love. Unbelievable man. You look at them talking about these kids, some of whom they have never seen in their life, and you would think they love these kids more than they love their own (if they had any)  All of a sudden, Haitian orphans have become a hot and precious commodity! Some parents are appearing on CNN and other Canadian TV stations, crying and begging the government to help them get these kids to their country so they can adopt them.

Who would adopt these kids or look after them if it wasn't for these caring and compassionate parents? I don't think anyone would even look at them.

Let us take our own Assyrian parents, and nothing against them, because our parents are great. But do you think it would be an Assyrian thing to go all the way to Haiti, a country where even the color of the people is different from our color (black vs. white) and adopt a Haitian kid? not to mention, even the language is different.

Or even an Arab or Muslim parents from Middle East. Can you see them doing the great humanatarian thing that these westeners are doing? I don't think it is just a matter of financial affordability to be able to afford to adopt these kids. There is love and care first before anything else.


God bless these people, they are in this world for a reason.

What do you guys think? aren't these parents doing a special service for humanity? or do you see it as a personal thing, where they need a kid because they can't get one themselvs, so they go to these poor countries to adopt?

By the way, this is different from rich celebrities like Madonna going to African countries to adopt, where the kids are not necessarily orphans, and kind of use their money to force a parent to give their kid away.


ASHOOR
 
ASHOOR said:
Which person from the Middle East (including our own Assyrians) would go through the trouble of wanting to adopt a kid from Haiti? worse yet, who would have this much love and passion for a kid that is not even from their color, country, faith etc.? And to travel all the way to Haiti during this earthquake messs? Forget it!

Well, not for the the Americans, Canadians and some Europeans!

Having followed the Haitian earthquake very closely, one of the issues that has been front and center is that of the 'Haitian orphans' and the great effort by thousands of US, Canadians and other European parents to adopt them. What a heart. What a love. Unbelievable man. You look at them talking about these kids, some of whom they have never seen in their life, and you would think they love these kids more than they love their own (if they had any)  All of a sudden, Haitian orphans have become a hot and precious commodity! Some parents are appearing on CNN and other Canadian TV stations, crying and begging the government to help them get these kids to their country so they can adopt them.

Who would adopt these kids or look after them if it wasn't for these caring and compassionate parents? I don't think anyone would even look at them.

Let us take our own Assyrian parents, and nothing against them, because our parents are great. But do you think it would be an Assyrian thing to go all the way to Haiti, a country where even the color of the people is different from our color (black vs. white) and adopt a Haitian kid? not to mention, even the language is different.

Or even an Arab or Muslim parents from Middle East. Can you see them doing the great humanatarian thing that these westeners are doing? I don't think it is just a matter of financial affordability to be able to afford to adopt these kids. There is love and care first before anything else.


God bless these people, they are in this world for a reason.

What do you guys think? aren't these parents doing a special service for humanity? or do you see it as a personal thing, where they need a kid because they can't get one themselvs, so they go to these poor countries to adopt?

By the way, this is different from rich celebrities like Madonna going to African countries to adopt, where the kids are not necessarily orphans, and kind of use their money to force a parent to give their kid away.


ASHOOR
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I don't know what to make from this post.  Are you suggesting that westerners are more loving than assyrians/middle easterners?  You seem to make a distinctions between them and promote the former, but on what grounds do you make this judgement?  Seeing westerners on CNN adopt a child does not make them more loving than the rest.  I don't think anyone can reasonably demonstrate that one people from one area of the map is any more or less loving than another. 

You also seem to hint at the idea that there are things inherent in westerners, that are missing in assyrians/middle easterners.  What is inherent in them that makes them do these things? 

Personally, all humans have the same biology.  We all have the same capacity for love and good deeds.  You place a member of each country in a safe environment where they have access to necessities in life and they'll normally behave themselves.  Even though you might not see assyrians/middle easterners adopting haitians in the news, do not mean they don't do it when the cameras are not around.  Moreover, what about every other people/country?  How often do they adopt?  I think jumping to a conclusion that westerners are more loving based on seeing them adopt kids on TV is mistaken.
 
ultoma, I like your last paragraph, especially the part about "You place a member of each country in a safe environment where they have access to necessities in life and they'll normally behave themselves. " which is true. But I do think there is more to it, there is real love and care here. But of course, having the resources and money makes it easier to adopt.

By the way, in terms of Assyrians and others adopting Haitian kids, while I don't have all the raw data, I can safely assume it is virtually non-existent (for Assyrians at least) or maybe it is low enough that we haven't heard of it.

My argument is not about who is the better parent, like you said, every human is capable of love and care, but in this time of need, parents from this side of the world (and it may have to do with proximity too?) are showing more care.  I wish every parent cared, regardless of what they are. But so far, it has been a Western thing.

ASHOOR

 
Ashoor, I think the reason that God has blessed these western countries ib because of thier generosity and love for humanity. They have compassion and always first in helping the needy. They value life. Unfortunatley we don't. By we I include the region that we come from. We only help are immdiate and exteded families and that is it. Mind you now we don't even extend help to our extended families.

Site me the case when any of the rich oil countries that have helped in a catastrophy. Site me the case when they have showed compassion toward humanity. That is why I feel god has forsaken us and our region.
 
ACANA said:
Ashoor, I think the reason that God has blessed these western countries ib because of thier generosity and love for humanity. They have compassion and always first in helping the needy. They value life. Unfortunatley we don't. By we I include the region that we come from. We only help are immdiate and exteded families and that is it. Mind you now we don't even extend help to our extended families.

Site me the case when any of the rich oil countries that have helped in a catastrophy. Site me the case when they have showed compassion toward humanity. That is why I feel god has forsaken us and our region.
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I couldn't agree with you more, and if anyone has failed to see this, they need a reality check.

When an earthquake strikes even Muslim countries, it is the red cross and all these American and European aid agencies that are on the ground first, before anyone else.

And if someone tells me "they do it for PR" I will tell them 'sure, especially when someone leaves the comfort of living in the west and goes to a disaster zone, having to burry corpses, look after those who are dying, and sleep in the street' .... yes that is PR!!!!

Sure, the US does use these aid agencies to enhance its image. But guess what, the volunteers doing the job for these agencies do it out of the goodness of their heart and are not there to enhance the image of their country.

Just watch TV (any channel you like, but I recommend CNN and CBS for best coverage) and you will actually feel good about humanity, seeing pictures and videos of what these aid organizations personnel are doing on the ground. It is truly moving and great to see.

ASHOOR
 
ACANA said:
Site me the case when any of the rich oil countries that have helped in a catastrophy. Site me the case when they have showed compassion toward humanity. That is why I feel god has forsaken us and our region.
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http://www.timeoutabudhabi.com/knowledge/news/12803-haiti-earthquake-appeal

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116527&sectionid=351020101

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/01/saudi-arabia-unlike-qatar-iran-and-jordan-kingdom-fails-to-cough-up-haiti-cash.html
 
David said:
http://www.timeoutabudhabi.com/knowledge/news/12803-haiti-earthquake-appeal

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116527&sectionid=351020101

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/01/saudi-arabia-unlike-qatar-iran-and-jordan-kingdom-fails-to-cough-up-haiti-cash.html
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Sure, the whole world helps, including Muslim and Arab countries, but please David lol, don't compare the individual efforts of people from these countries to the efforts by people from the West. Who was all over South East Asia when the Tsunami hit? who is all over Haiti now? Who was in Istanbul, Karachi, Bam, Peru etc. when earthquakes hit? Of course, people from this side of the world.

Again, it could simply boil down to a different of technology and capabilities, but compassion and care has a lot to do with it. People in the west have developed more compassion than people in the Middle East. Just talk to an average Middle Eastern, and while they may feel bad for the victims, they will often tell you "we have our own problems to deal with" which brings us to the point that ultoma made earlier: that these coutries are simply in a better position to donate.

It is one thing to make a cash donation (which is a great thing of course) and to actually go on the ground and help. All the money that has been donated to Haiti, what is the point? the people are still not getting food and medical care. What matters is when food and medican aid is provided to the people, and that will be done by these voluteers from the USA, Canada and elsewhere.

ASHOOR
 
ACANA said:
Ashoor, I think the reason that God has blessed these western countries ib because of thier generosity and love for humanity. They have compassion and always first in helping the needy. They value life. Unfortunatley we don't. By we I include the region that we come from. We only help are immdiate and exteded families and that is it. Mind you now we don't even extend help to our extended families.

Site me the case when any of the rich oil countries that have helped in a catastrophy. Site me the case when they have showed compassion toward humanity. That is why I feel god has forsaken us and our region.
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God has nothing to do with this. Apparently you know not much about the West's brutal history until recent ages. There was a time when the Europeans were even more backward than the Arabs of the Middle East. Times change, and this age belong to those European countries who are rich and developed.
 
hanuni you are a brilliant mind! during the middle ages the arabs were the civilized ones. please someone get some spray for all this bullshi*. If these kids are not adopted the country will further degenerate (as it probably will, who will want to invest in a land were more large sever earthquakes are imminent.) so there not "slaves" anymore theyre "adoptive children" there still people of african origin who are brought to the usa under severe duress. "generosity" Where was the generosity for us when we needed a shi*ty piece of land in the north of a dustbowl called iraq? a strip of dust is all we wanted and flick of a pen would have decreed it so but mind you ashor or anyone who thinks there is not an alternate motive is a sheep. go ahead and marvel at "american generosity" but dont look at the forclosed homes in the usa, dont look at the starving kids in africa, and please dont look at the BLOOD on the WALLS of CHURCHS in our piece of dust land and is not even ours because these "generous" people did not flick their pen to write "assyria" on the new map of the world. go ahead marvel but please when your done will you take the knife out of assyria's back it might tarnish these "generous" peoples name :imsorry:   
 
 
Indeed. I wonder where the kind European nations where when the Arab Sudanese wiped out some 250 000 Christian Sudanese? I wonder where the kind European nations where when 750,000 Assyrians (regardless of sect) where killed in the hands of the Turkish Government and the Kurdish clans? I wonder where they were in the genocide of Rwanda and the time after the Islamic Fatwa in Indonesia where they killed over 10,000 Christians in 2003? The list goes on and on...

The West is brutal in many ways :)
 
ASHOOR said:
Sure, the whole world helps, including Muslim and Arab countries, but please David lol, don't compare the individual efforts of people from these countries to the efforts by people from the West. Who was all over South East Asia when the Tsunami hit? who is all over Haiti now? Who was in Istanbul, Karachi, Bam, Peru etc. when earthquakes hit? Of course, people from this side of the world.

Again, it could simply boil down to a different of technology and capabilities, but compassion and care has a lot to do with it. People in the west have developed more compassion than people in the Middle East. Just talk to an average Middle Eastern, and while they may feel bad for the victims, they will often tell you "we have our own problems to deal with" which brings us to the point that ultoma made earlier: that these coutries are simply in a better position to donate.

It is one thing to make a cash donation (which is a great thing of course) and to actually go on the ground and help. All the money that has been donated to Haiti, what is the point? the people are still not getting food and medical care. What matters is when food and medican aid is provided to the people, and that will be done by these voluteers from the USA, Canada and elsewhere.

ASHOOR
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Try to think a bit deeper than compassion. perhaps by reading up on the history of humanitarian interventionism, funding pools and interest groups associated with catastrophic events.
 
You guys are joking about arabs being the civilised ones right? The middle ages was over hundred of years ago EXCEPT where the arabs are. Yes, the European nations in the past were always fighting eachother to establish kingdoms and trying to wipe out natives from their lands to colonize on other parts of the world. This was hundreds of years ago. Do we need a history lesson on how the arabs spread from the Saudi peninsula through the rest of the middle east?

What matters is what's going on today. We can bitch and moan and live the future based on what happened in the past, or we can write our present history without holding grudges about what happened yesterday. Choose wisely.
 
Adopting Haitian Kids is all fine...but what about our OWN people back home?  How many orphans do we have due to 2+ wars in the last 10-15 years.  No one cares about us.
 
"You guys are joking about arabs being the civilised ones right? The middle ages was over hundred of years ago EXCEPT where the arabs are. Yes, the European nations in the past were always fighting eachother to establish kingdoms and trying to wipe out natives from their lands to colonize on other parts of the world. This was hundreds of years ago. Do we need a history lesson on how the arabs spread from the Saudi peninsula through the rest of the middle east?

What matters is what's going on today. We can ***** and moan and live the future based on what happened in the past, or we can write our present history without holding grudges about what happened yesterday. Choose wisely."

How did they spread iraqicamel? through war and conquest the same way we Assyrians spread our glorious empire. and I'm sure everyone around the world that time said "those Assyrians how uncivilized" than we conquered them :) How is it Assyrians hate arabs when at no point in history have arabs facilitated the destruction of our nation? (they didnt rewrite the middle east)  it was the english who betrayed our glorious people, yet most assyrians i know ride european di*k and act as such. while leaving a betrayed culture to be covered by the sands of time.

and what exactly is going on today. everytime i hear about attacks in iraq my chest tightens hoping our people were not involved. before i read the news stories and pray that no church or christian neighborhood was attacked. but no camel you are correct lets forget that so they can betray us even further and so we can go on forgetting that. see what happens when you finish that linage of corrupted thought? fool in that cycle we are surly doomed!  :ranting:
 
I don't give a shit about Assyrian history and how Assyrianism has been spread. I think this type of thinking has left hundreds if not thousands of people arguing over the dumbest shit like trying to prove that whoever speaks a dialect of Aramaic is Assyrian. The problem is nobody cares, everybody will see history as they want to agree with it. Just as you choose who are your friends, just as you choose who you wish to source or look up to, just as you choose whatever agrees with your most intimate emotions.

I'm saying that generally we need to sit down and put aside the past and only embrace a peaceful goal. This includes not holding grudges against anybody because of their beliefs, religiously or whatever it is. I'm familiar with how the British betrayed the Assyrians and that was unfortunate but in the end if you want to point fingers you need to look in the mirror.

What happens in Iraq from time to time is very unfortunate and unnecessary, I agree. It also doesn't help that leaders are trying to put influence into a power that condemns us that we need our own province and whatnot. We need this we need that, we are entitled to this and that. Drop that shit and things might get better. You go to the west and you get westernized. You are in Iraq and you need to deal with getting arabized. It's an unstable country and heretics will take advantage as they wish.

Nobody gives a fuck though, one day someone who thinks just as diligently as you (sarcasm) will enjoy being recognized as the one who pushed for all of this nonsense and everybody will disregard the many deaths that will concur as acts of sacrifice for our nation.
 
a little hint when you have to actually say (sarcasm) it really looses its effectiveness you indolent fool. secondly i can see you don't care about Assyrians with that wonderful flag your fluttering, i never understood why someone doesn't want to be Assyrian great power, founded civilization ect... ect... oh no but you have your "catholic" church your right much more important. and what kind of BS are you spouting a peaceful goal? yeah when the enemies of the people point guns at them they'll just take a flower and say peace and love? stupid hippie. that peace and love thing gets people no where, oh but it does work well for westerners to pacify the "brown" people of the world. so us "brown" people of the earth can fight on while you and your conniving english compatriots keep oppressing us. but tell me camel doesn't it sting when you talk against your own FLESH and BLOOD or has your body adjusted to the initial shock. 
 
It doesn't sting at all putting morons in their place who have an ignorant repeating ideology that has worked against the culture in the past. I guess it shows how important the Catholic church is when it was embraced only a few hundred years ago and outnumbers the rest of our population approximately 5:1.

I'm sorry that I value human life more than pride in my history. You and whoever wishes to view the world in an ethnocentric matter will continue to lose everything that has real meaning to it. You will be liberated the day you admit to yourself you put too much emphasis on the things that did not matter.
 
iraqicamel said:
It doesn't sting at all putting morons in their place who have an ignorant repeating ideology that has worked against the culture in the past. I guess it shows how important the Catholic church is when it was embraced only a few hundred years ago and outnumbers the rest of our population approximately 5:1.

I'm sorry that I value human life more than pride in my history. You and whoever wishes to view the world in an ethnocentric matter will continue to lose everything that has real meaning to it. You will be liberated the day you admit to yourself you put too much emphasis on the things that did not matter.
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The Catholic Church, or should I say the Vatican and not the Church is a cancer in my eyes. The Vatican took advantage of our Assyrian nation's weakness in Assyria, being persecuted by four major ethnic groups. They then flourished cash into the Assyrian families who became Catholic and so the Syriac Catholic and the Chaldean Catholic Church was established. I am not against an Assyrian being Catholic, but when the Vatican takes advantage of an already predominately Christian and weak nation I get disgusted. By the way, together Syriac Orthodox (SOC) & Nestorian (ACOE) outnumbers our Chaldean sect. Numbers aren't important, but since you brought it up I thought I would bring this up, even though it makes me just as bad as you

For a free and independent Assyria made up by Nestorians, Chaldeans, Jacobites and Maronites!  :wavetowel:
 
iraqicamel said:
It doesn't sting at all putting morons in their place who have an ignorant repeating ideology that has worked against the culture in the past. I guess it shows how important the Catholic church is when it was embraced only a few hundred years ago and outnumbers the rest of our population approximately 5:1.

I'm sorry that I value human life more than pride in my history. You and whoever wishes to view the world in an ethnocentric matter will continue to lose everything that has real meaning to it. You will be liberated the day you admit to yourself you put too much emphasis on the things that did not matter.
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:giggle: HA! Is that why the Catholic Church has been on the brink of disaster following all the sex-scandals and corruption?!? And I'm not trying to point the finger at Catholicism but all religious fanatics have lost everything that they stand for by trying to get as "close to God" as they can get without realizing that everyone is a sinner and nobody can get that close including themselvs (patriarchs, pastors, priests, etc.)
 
i cannot explain how happy i am to see that contrary to my belief not all Assyrians are sheep that dont realize what is facts from what is belief. people are starting to realize that the church is an entity it is not God himself. and that priests are men who study the word of God and not utter religious edicts.
 
The Vatican took advantage of our Assyrian nation's weakness in Assyria, being persecuted by four major ethnic groups. They then flourished cash into the Assyrian families who became Catholic and so the Syriac Catholic and the Chaldean Catholic Church was established. I am not against an Assyrian being Catholic, but when the Vatican takes advantage of an already predominately Christian and weak nation I get disgusted.
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:giggle:

I'm not going to say I'm surprised at all after what you just said, you probably practice a worse cancer called Assyrianism which has cost lives of well over 1 million Assyrians. Me and possibly all Chaldeans see this as a blessing to be reunited with the first and original church of our Lord. We're not leading the world in schisms like the ACOE is either. I don't know if you are trying to convince yourself with these assyrianized viewpoints but when it comes to having such crap statements unrecognized by the majority you have unfortunately fallen on the shorter end of the stick.


By the way, together Syriac Orthodox (SOC) & Nestorian (ACOE) outnumbers our Chaldean sect. Numbers aren't important, but since you brought it up I thought I would bring this up, even though it makes me just as bad as you
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LOL let me find another denomination of Syriac Christianity and play the numbers game... Don't know if you should mention the Syriac's, word around has it they aren't interested in being affiliated with Assyrians. I'm not too up to date on anybody else that might be Assyrian though (Coptics perhaps?)

HA! Is that why the Catholic Church has been on the brink of disaster following all the sex-scandals and corruption?!? And I'm not trying to point the finger at Catholicism but all religious fanatics have lost everything that they stand for by trying to get as "close to God" as they can get without realizing that everyone is a sinner and nobody can get that close including themselvs (patriarchs, pastors, priests, etc.)
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No and No. Catholic church is alive and growing. You should look into it, you would understand that your second statement (or was it a question?) holds no ground. You should look into it means read the Bible or go to church and learn.

i cannot explain how happy i am to see that contrary to my belief not all Assyrians are sheep that dont realize what is facts from what is belief.
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Facts to you are not facts to everybody. Most facts to you are fallacies to everybody else. You are weak for feeling confident just because you think a couple people see things your way. Your way is clearly nothing close to what is right, but don't let that bother you.

people are starting to realize that the church is an entity it is not God himself. and that priests are men who study the word of God and not utter religious edicts.
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This is irrelevant and you are making up your own junk. You know nothing about the Catholic Church and the more you come to these ignorant conclusions the more you steer yourself away from truth.

By the way, thanks for not addressing the real issue, which has nothing to do with your anti-Catholic cluttered mind:

I'm sorry that I value human life more than pride in my history. You and whoever wishes to view the world in an ethnocentric matter will continue to lose everything that has real meaning to it. You will be liberated the day you admit to yourself you put too much emphasis on the things that did not matter.




 
iraqicamel said:
:giggle:

I'm not going to say I'm surprised at all after what you just said, you probably practice a worse cancer called Assyrianism which has cost lives of well over 1 million Assyrians. Me and possibly all Chaldeans see this as a blessing to be reunited with the first and original church of our Lord. We're not leading the world in schisms like the ACOE is either. I don't know if you are trying to convince yourself with these assyrianized viewpoints but when it comes to having such crap statements unrecognized by the majority you have unfortunately fallen on the shorter end of the stick.


LOL let me find another denomination of Syriac Christianity and play the numbers game... Don't know if you should mention the Syriac's, word around has it they aren't interested in being affiliated with Assyrians. I'm not too up to date on anybody else that might be Assyrian though (Coptics perhaps?)
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A lot of the members of the Chaldean and Syriac Orthodox Church acknowledge that they are Assyrians. Assyrian nationalists come from all of our churches, including the Maronite one, while other nationalist only come from one sect. The first Church is not the Catholic Church, the first Church in the whole world, after the one in Jerusalem is the Syriac Orthodox of Antioch (ever heard of Antioch and that the first Christians were called Christians from Antioch?).

You can't play the numbers game as at least 30% of all Chaldeans still see themselves as ethnic Assyrians and an equal number in the Syriac Orthodox Church. 99% of all members see all of us in our Suraya umtha. The Assyrian elections in northern Iraq showed a more than 90% support of the CSA and ADM (both parties being pro-unity) where as those parties who oppose unity did not get more than 1-9%.

No Christian denomiation has sacrified as much lives for Christ as Syriac Christianity (ACOE, SOC, Chaldean, Maronite). The last Pope John Paul payed his gratitudes to Mar Dinkha for this. Now there is nothing wrong in being Catholic, Protestant or even an Atheist as long as you do not beging to make Catholicsm, Protestantism or Atheism a ethnic term. I'm fine with you being an Assyrian atheist, chaldean catholic, orthodox or what ever you want to be :)
 
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