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What is your stance on god or a deity?

On the god issue, you are a...

  • Gnostic theist - I believe in a deity and I know that he (or they) exist

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • Agnostic theist - I believe in a deity, but I'm not sure if they exist or not

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Agnostic atheist - I'm a nonbeliever, but I can't say for sure that their existence is likely or unl

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Gnostic atheist - I'm a nonbeliever and I'm sure that deities don't exist.

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • Total voters
    13

Cascade

New member
A few months ago, I made a poll thread on this. Unfortunately, it got locked due to unwarranted arguments and fights. I hope this thread would be much cleaner. All I want is mature, personal opinions on your belief in deity.

Here is the spectrum:

Gnostic theist: You believe in a god and you know he exists
Agnostic theist: You believe in a god, but you're not entirely sure of his existence
Agnostic atheist: You don't believe in a god, but you don't know if he exists or not
Gnostic atheist: You don't believe in a god and you KNOW that they don't exist

Where do you fall in this spectrum?
 

Cascade

New member
mrzurnaci said:
Agnostic Theist.
Most deists would be that. I wonder if there are Gnostic deists though...?

I should've made this poll on the Serious Discussion thread. My last (locked) thread, which was there, got over 11 votes in a few days. This still has 3 (and you didn't vote Lol)....:bangin:
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Neon said:
Most deists would be that. I wonder if there are Gnostic deists though...?

I should've made this poll on the Serious Discussion thread. My last (locked) thread, which was there, got over 11 votes in a few days. This still has 3 (and you didn't vote Lol)....:bangin:
whoop, there we go.

Honestly, I'd probably be more religiously Christian if it weren't for the fact that we've been having nothing but bad luck a few hundred years after becoming Christian.

It just makes me think "God, we've worshipped you for 1900+ years and this is our repayment? Being uprooted from our homeland, families destroyed, churches destroyed, monasteries blown up, living in persecution and oppression?"
 

Etain

Member
mrzurnaci said:
whoop, there we go.

Honestly, I'd probably be more religiously Christian if it weren't for the fact that we've been having nothing but bad luck a few hundred years after becoming Christian.

It just makes me think "God, we've worshipped you for 1900+ years and this is our repayment? Being uprooted from our homeland, families destroyed, churches destroyed, monasteries blown up, living in persecution and oppression?"
Christians are NOT promised a good life in this world.
 

Cascade

New member
mrzurnaci said:
whoop, there we go.

Honestly, I'd probably be more religiously Christian if it weren't for the fact that we've been having nothing but bad luck a few hundred years after becoming Christian.

It just makes me think "God, we've worshipped you for 1900+ years and this is our repayment? Being uprooted from our homeland, families destroyed, churches destroyed, monasteries blown up, living in persecution and oppression?"
I get your point. And you're right. But you said it yourself, didn't Christianity save our culture and heritage? I think it did to an extent. But I don't know -- As I said early, we Assyrians are hella stubborn and a strong-minded bunch. We don't convert and we'd prefer to die even. So even if we were Pagan, Zoroastrian and whatnot (during Islamisation), I think we still would've remained Assyrians and whatever religion we adhered to earlier.

To answer your second paragraph, I believe that all these horrible events just happened because they happened. Life is unjust. There is no intervention of the Abrahamic god (or at least the gods we wrote about). I also asked the same thing when I was on the verge of losing my religion.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Neon said:
I get your point. And you're right. But you said it yourself, didn't Christianity save our culture and heritage? I think it did to an extent. But I don't know -- As I said early, we Assyrians are hella stubborn and a strong-minded bunch. We don't convert and we'd prefer to die even. So even if we were Pagan, Zoroastrian and whatnot (during Islamisation), I think we still would've remained Assyrians and whatever religion we adhered to earlier.

To answer your second paragraph, I believe that all these horrible events just happened because they happened. Life is unjust. There is no intervention of the Abrahamic god (or at least the gods we wrote about). I also asked the same thing when I was on the verge of losing my religion.
yes, Christianity did save our heritage and culture by intermingling it into its doctrines.

Are you sure we would've remained Assyrian no matter what religion? The only way we would've remained Assyrian is through the learning of the Syriac language and the memory of Assyria.

With Islam that was impossible because translations of the Qur'an were banned and non-Muslims were not allowed to study the Qur'an without converting to Islam.

The reason for that is because the Caliphs didn't want non-Muslims to study the qur'an and use it against them somehow.

Even today, there's still no translation of the Qur'an to Syriac. Translating books strengthens our language because it transfers info that we can learn and use. Not to mention that it can introduce new words and concepts for us to translate or create new roots to accommodate.

I even checked about Mingana's ancient Syriac "translation" but it was only translations of various Qur'an quotes, not a full or whole translation.
 

Cascade

New member
mrzurnaci said:
yes, Christianity did save our heritage and culture by intermingling it into its doctrines.

Are you sure we would've remained Assyrian no matter what religion? The only way we would've remained Assyrian is through the learning of the Syriac language and the memory of Assyria.

With Islam that was impossible because translations of the Qur'an were banned and non-Muslims were not allowed to study the Qur'an without converting to Islam.

The reason for that is because the Caliphs didn't want non-Muslims to study the qur'an and use it against them somehow.

Even today, there's still no translation of the Qur'an to Syriac. Translating books strengthens our language because it transfers info that we can learn and use. Not to mention that it can introduce new words and concepts for us to translate or create new roots to accommodate.

I even checked about Mingana's ancient Syriac "translation" but it was only translations of various Qur'an quotes, not a full or whole translation.
Well, if they converted us to Islam we'd definitely be Arabicized by now. We could've remained Assyrians if were Jews or Zoroastrian though. But that's just my speculation.
 

Crocodile Bani

Active member
Anything but a Jew, please  :)

To answer the first question, I believe in God, simply because it makes more sense than there being no God.  I have massive problems believing in the Old Testament (especially the creation story and the Noah's arc story).  Although the claims of the New testament are almost always proven with other historical or archaeological sources, it does refer several times to the Old Testament, which then puts a question mark (in my eyes) on its authenticity too.

The Quran came 600 years after Christ and had its own narration of what happened at the time of Jesus.  I have a problem believing in something that came 600 years after the event, though it doesn't say anything too controversial about Jesus and Mary.

I guess the best way to describe me is a sceptical Christian.
 

ASHUR

New member
Crocodile Bani said:
Anything but a Jew, please  :)
Why?  I never understand why we Assyrians hate the Jews so much?  Is it because we are envious of them?  We should try and be more like them. If we were, I don't think we'd be in the situation we find ourselves in today. 

I would rather be a Jew than a Muslim ANY day.
 

Cascade

New member
ASHUR said:
Why?  I never understand why we Assyrians hate the Jews so much?  Is it because we are envious of them?  We should try and be more like them. If we were, I don't think we'd be in the situation we find ourselves in today. 

I would rather be a Jew than a Muslim ANY day.
Exactly. Look, it's okay to be a little competitive with them, but to fully on detest them?

Bani, you've made a lot of posts that were totally anti-Semitic in the past. And you seem to do it in 90% of your posts. What's up with that? Lol...

P.S. So you'd rather live in Saudi Arabia than in Israel?
 
M

member 326969 Global

Guest
Crocodile Bani said:
Anything but a Jew, please  :)

To answer the first question, I believe in God, simply because it makes more sense than there being no God.  I have massive problems believing in the Old Testament (especially the creation story and the Noah's arc story).  Although the claims of the New testament are almost always proven with other historical or archaeological sources, it does refer several times to the Old Testament, which then puts a question mark (in my eyes) on its authenticity too.

The Quran came 600 years after Christ and had its own narration of what happened at the time of Jesus.  I have a problem believing in something that came 600 years after the event, though it doesn't say anything too controversial about Jesus and Mary.

I guess the best way to describe me is a sceptical Christian.
Quit spouting your Islamic prejudice against the Jews. Your embarrassing the Assyrian community by demonstrating how irrational you are.

 
Sharukinu said:
Quit spouting your Islamic prejudice against the Jews. Your embarrassing the Assyrian community by demonstrating how irrational you are.
I agree, Jews have contributed greatly to this world I don't understand why people would hate them...
 

Crocodile Bani

Active member
I was answering the original question and made a comment about the post previous to mine.  Malokhon?

Anti-Semitic?  Last I checked, Assyrians were Semites too!  Or have the propagandists changed your thinking on that too?

And where in any of my posts have I been spouting Islamic propaganda?  I am Christian (though a sceptic) and I believe in human rights for all people and to stand up for those who are oppressed.  Assyrians, Tibetans, Armenians, Tasmanian Aborigines and Palestinians will always be in my thoughts because of the genocides they have suffered.

Enough of the personal attacks!  Seriously, you people are insane.  Intolerant of anyone daring to tell the truth without a gun pointed at his head like a BBC and CNN reporter who lost their jobs in the Gaza war in 2014 for telling the truth, or the many journos who have been killed by the Chinese government for telling the Tibet situation like it is. 

I bet you all applauded Julie Bishop in 2013 when she said that the 1915 genocide did not happen.
 
M

member 326969 Global

Guest
Crocodile Bani said:
I was answering the original question and made a comment about the post previous to mine.  Malokhon?

Anti-Semitic?  Last I checked, Assyrians were Semites too!  Or have the propagandists changed your thinking on that too?

And where in any of my posts have I been spouting Islamic propaganda?  I am Christian (though a sceptic) and I believe in human rights for all people and to stand up for those who are oppressed.  Assyrians, Tibetans, Armenians, Tasmanian Aborigines and Palestinians will always be in my thoughts because of the genocides they have suffered.

Enough of the personal attacks!  Seriously, you people are insane.  Intolerant of anyone daring to tell the truth without a gun pointed at his head like a BBC and CNN reporter who lost their jobs in the Gaza war in 2014 for telling the truth, or the many journos who have been killed by the Chinese government for telling the Tibet situation like it is. 

I bet you all applauded Julie Bishop in 2013 when she said that the 1915 genocide did not happen.
Notwithstanding that I agree that the term 'antisemitic' is a misnomer, it has been exclusively appropriated to mean prejudice against the Jews as an ethnic, racial or religious group. You can't chose to define terms the way they suit you. We all have to use the language as it has been agreed upon and through the conventions of it's everyday use. When people say 'antisemitic', they are talking about Jews and would be wrong to refer to Semites in general.

Your hatred of Jews strongly suggests you have been informed (directly and/or indirectly) by Islamic apologetics. Thereby you pollute the threads of this forum, regurgitate unfounded Islamic propaganda and expect non-Muslims to take you seriously. You then cloak your prejudice by asserting Islamic conspiracy theories as though they were established fact and are surprised to find resistance in a forum filled with people who don't by the 'Muslims are the real victims' and 'Jews are evil' crap.

Although you haven't brought up your wild theories in this thread (yet), you sure haven't hesitated to express your uncouth contempt for Jews, which has become so banal in the Muslim world.
 

Crocodile Bani

Active member
I hope you are not a psychiatrist.  The number of mis-diagnosis you would give would bring the whole world down.  But at least you are honest.  They say, "If a lie is repeat often enough, it becomes considered the truth".  You have acknowledged what a Semite really is and you have acknowledged how the meaning has changed through repeated "hasbara" and now it is considered the truth. 

I am a proud Semite.  Back in 1993, my mates and I started the USA over in Sydney University.  USA = United Semitic Association.  My mate Dean who was Jewish was the mastermind behind it but I helped out wherever I could.  It was doing well until another Israel led bloodshed and too many members left.  Dean himself is a non-Zionist Jew and pleaded with the other members that USA (The Sydney Uni version) did not support the bloodshed and was about fostering understanding between the Semitic groups.  The USA group was finished in 1996.  You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
 
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