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Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?

M

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Neon said:
I'm sure if you typed the word "meaning" into the search bar you will be inundated with results. I don't know what search criteria you entered to only get those three results. Anyway, "meaning" has a few different meanings in English.  Those that you posted refer to one sense of the word "meaning"; here are some others that may relate to various senses of the word "meaning":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25758&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=14223&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=32357&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10813&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9151&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4634&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9484&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10400&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=19280&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4232&language=id



Neon said:
P.S. What about "lip" and "sipateh"? I guess now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Lol.
They are too different.
 

Cascade

New member
Sharukinu said:
I did type "meaning" in the search bar and I did get so many results. I just didn't see a point of listing them all.

So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/

Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.
 
M

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Neon said:
So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/
Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=macnAyA%27&language=fullsyriac
Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=34348&language=id
Mana: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8221&language=id


Manaya seems to be a coincidental evolution of a borrowed term ma'na. Therefore it is best avoided in favour of other words such as those above. The dictionary redirects you to the following two as examples of authentic alternatives:

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=juwdAcA%27&language=fullsyriac
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=sukAlA%27&language=fullsyriac


Neon said:
Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.

After a google search on the etymology of "about": Old English onb?tan, from on ?in, on? + b?tan ?outside of.
After doing the same for "but": Old English be-?tan, b?tan, b?ta ?outside, without, except?

So we are really comparing the Assyrian (Neo-Aramaic) but (about) with the Old English be-?tan, b?tan and b?ta (outside of, outside, without, except)

Being "about" or "around" something does seem closely related to being "outside" of something. -Being about or around something simply means being "adjacent" + being "outside" [of something]. Considering how far back we have to go, there is a good chance this is another coincidence (as always) but maybe there is a connection.


 

Cascade

New member
We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them. Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?

And thanks for the google research on the etymology of "about". :)
 
M

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Neon said:
We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them.
Yes. We should standardise our modern words and enforce their usage in both the East and West dialects of modern Assyrian (Suret/Sureth) to help them merge as much as possible. I am currently creating a small dictionary by extracting words from existing dictionaries such as the one I gave examples from. My goal is to take a simplified list of authentic (native) words and provide a translation in English so that you don't have to go digging to find the meaning of a word among such large lists of similar words, and so that you don't have to contemplate whether or not the word is authentic. I've also began listing etymologies alongside some words.

Let me clarify what I mean by "authentic". Words from Aramaic, Akkadian, Sumerian, Hurrian, Amoritic and such languages that are our deepest roots, are "authentic" and most preferred.

After the authentic words we have the somewhat authentic words: words from the languages of closely related/interactive ancient cultures ie Uratian, Phoenician, Hittite, Elamite etc -these are somewhat preferred.

The only inauthentic words that I might consider maintaining are those borrowed from languages of great pre-Islamic cultures, especially those which are relevant to our history, such as Latin, Persian and Greek -these are barely preferred. However, an idealist part of me wants to purge these words too.



Neon said:
Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?
I don't know what it means in Arabic or Turkish. I believe it is ultimately from Arabic but it might have been borrowed through Turkish - I'm guessing it means "meaning" in Arabic also. However, we do have an authentic Aramaic root that seems to be somewhat related:  E-N-A (Eh, Nun, Aleph,)

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=cn%27&language=fullsyriac


 

Cascade

New member
Sharukinu said:
I don't know what it means in Arabic or Turkish. I believe it is ultimately from Arabic but it might have been borrowed through Turkish - I'm guessing it means "meaning" in Arabic also. However, we do have an authentic Aramaic root that seems to be somewhat related:  E-N-A (Eh, Nun, Aleph,)

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=cn%27&language=fullsyriac
Yeah, I figured that "man'a" is in Arabic and it means "meaning" too. Perhaps it's a Semitic cognate word. But I don't know.
 

Cascade

New member
What about "mortal" and "mota"?

Mortal is Latin for "death" and it sounds like "mota". Are these two related?
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Neon said:
What about "mortal" and "mota"?

Mortal is Latin for "death" and it sounds like "mota". Are these two related?
missing 'r'...

the root for death in Semitic languages is M-W-T (meem waw taw)

the latin "mortalis" comes from latin "mors" (death)

"mors" originates from (reconstructed) indo euro root "mer"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:proto-Indo-European/mer-

example of modern languages that use the root

Kurdish - Mirin
Persian - Mordan
 

Cascade

New member
Carlo said:
Hey John,

What you're describing is language "inflection," and it happens in virtually every Indo-European language as well as the Semitic languages. Some linguists have thought to group these two together because of that similarity, but most are unconvinced.
And it really isn't convincing. ;)

Look I'm also not a linguist here and I lack knowledge in languages, but come on, the OP surely would know that many languages from numerous differing families have some sort of inflection. He can't be this na?ve. Lol. But his thread (which is interesting nonetheless) is from 8 years ago. Hopefully he's learnt a bit since then.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Neon said:
Kill: Qtull/Qatala (Arabic; Katill/Kutil/Al Qatil)

Any relations?
yes, the same Semitic root.. Arabic doesn't say "katil", also you're forgetting the Qur'ans favorite word: "qatal".
 

Cascade

New member
mrzurnaci said:
yes, the same Semitic root.. Arabic doesn't say "katil", also you're forgetting the Qur'ans favorite word: "qatal".
Looool...

I meant, any relations to the English word "kill", as the sound similar to it.

I know the Semitic roots of it are the same.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Neon said:
Looool...

I meant, any relations to the English word "kill", as the sound similar to it.

I know the Semitic roots of it are the same.
OOHHH, Sorry, I misunderstood.

kill, in Englosh, is derived from Middle English killen, kyllen, c?llen (?to strike, beat, cut?)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kill
 
M

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I should've added to my post that the Assyrian M-N-E root is about counting and reckoning which is why it's not unrealistic for men?ya to be from that root since we often change Ehs into Yuds.

Although the English word for kill derives from words that sound more different to the Semitic root Q-TT-L, the key is to look for the consonants and account for as many changes as possible. Does killen/kyllen/c?llen posses any affixes? If the "en" is a suffix, then you're left with K-L. Qop and Kap interchange often. So it's easy to connect the Qop and Lammad in Q-TT-L to the Kap and Lammad sounds in the English equivalents.

If you look at Proto Indo-European words, there seems to be much commonality with Proto-Semitic roots. At the very least, it suggests a close proximity between the speakers of the languages -one of the many reasons why upper Mesopotamia is most likely the urheimat (birthplace) of Proto Semitic.
 

Cascade

New member
Sharukinu said:
If you look at Proto Indo-European words, there seems to be much commonality with Proto-Semitic roots. At the very least, it suggests a close proximity between the speakers of the languages -one of the many reasons why upper Mesopotamia is most likely the urheimat (birthplace) of Proto Semitic.
Well, they have proposed the Nostratic language family, which includes Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic, Japonic, Korean and Uralic languages having the same common ancestor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languages

There's also Indo-Semitic, which hypothesizes that Semitic and Indo-European languages have the same ancestor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages
 

Cascade

New member
I realized the English word "woe" is related to the Assyrian word "wai" (as in the song, Wai Wai Minakh by Sargon Gabriel, meaning "woe from you"). Astonishingly, the proto-Indo European word is "wai", which is quite identical to the modern Assyrian word. Both "wai" and "akh" (which is also used in Arabic - "akh minak") are in the Syriac dictionary. And it appears that "wai" is a classical Syriac word. So maybe it has genetic ties to the proto-Indo European word *wai?

Akh: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=30429&language=id
Wye: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=16457&language=id

The Indo-European cognate include; Latin vae, Lithuanian va?, Russian ???? (uv?), Middle Irish f?e, Dutch wee, German weh, Danish ve, French ouais, Ancient Greek ???? (oua?), Armenian ??? (vay) and Persian ??? (v?y).
 
M

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Neon said:
I realized the English word "woe" is related to the Assyrian word "wai" (as in the song, Wai Wai Minakh by Sargon Gabriel, meaning "woe from you"). Astonishingly, the proto-Indo European word is "wai", which is quite identical to the modern Assyrian word. Both "wai" and "akh" (which is also used in Arabic - "akh minak") are in the Syriac dictionary. And it appears that "wai" is a classical Syriac word. So maybe it has genetic ties to the proto-Indo European word *wai?

Akh: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=30429&language=id
Wye: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=16457&language=id

The Indo-European cognate include; Latin vae, Lithuanian va?, Russian ???? (uv?), Middle Irish f?e, Dutch wee, German weh, Danish ve, French ouais, Ancient Greek ???? (oua?), Armenian ??? (vay) and Persian ??? (v?y).
I've also noticed these similarities. It's very interesting since they are words that describe such basic emotions.
 

Cascade

New member
What I gathered from this really instructive thread is that these words are likely to have genetic connections to proto Indo-European:

Ayna: Eye
Ara: Earth (Proto-Indo-European *h?er- compare Ancient Greek *??? *?ra)
Wai: Woe
Tara: Door (Proto-Indo-European *d?wer- ?doorway, door, gate?, compare German T?r)


These words I'm not sure of, but should be put in perspective:

Laya: Light (Proto-Indo-European root *lewk- ?light?)
Manay: Meaning
Sawer: Swear (from PIE *swer- ?to speak, talk? - Perhaps related to Semitic root s-w-t/sawt; voice?)
Qat-qit: Cut (from Proto-Germanic *kutjan?, *kuttan?; ?to cut?)
Khzee: See (from Proto-Indo-European *sek?- ?to see, notice?


"Zruch" ("scratch") and "boot" ("about") are probably coincidental. Also, "cat" (qatoo) is said to be derived from the ancient Egyptian word "?aute".

P.S. Would you say that the Afro-Asiatic languages gave rise to Indo-European? Could AA be an ancestor to IE?
 
M

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Neon said:
P.S. Would you say that the Afro-Asiatic languages gave rise to Indo-European? Could AA be an ancestor to IE?
I think they most likely have a common origin. Sister languages, or cousins.
 

Etain

Member
Interesting theory. It's possible there's a connection but the afro-asiatic languages originated far away from where indo-european did. I can't think of a migration route that would make sense. Indo-European likely originated in modern day Ukraine.
 
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