Carlo said:
Ah, so by "clearer," you mean "nicer sounding." We've had this discussion before; you say "it's not always subjective" and then immediately say "many people." That sounds subjective to me.
I don't think we should pander to outsiders and base our language on how "nice" it sounds or how similar it sounds to other languages. Our language is our language, warts and all. It's for us, not others.
I know that "many people" is still subjective, because they have their own opinion. But the thing is, they are a majority, aren't they not? Ask a lot of people, survey them about the nicest sounding languages and the ugliest. Odds are, they'll mostly say Italian, Spanish and French, among others, being the most "beautiful", and languages like Vietnamese, Cantonese and Arabic as being the "ugliest". You make a point about us not pandering to foreigners. But hey, it's always good to be well-represented to others, huh? I'm sure you'd get irked if someone listens to Assyrian and be like "my my, what an ugly language". It's a good thing to be a bit pandering for outsiders. But that's just my opinion. I understand if you disagree.
You're right that our language is our language. Last time I checked, on ABN, they don't speak Turoyo, but eastern Assyrian. Although on Suroyo TV they do speak western. Nobody has changed those anyway.
Furthermore, I'm not trying to change the language. I actually wish that more and more Syriac and Akkadian words enter our vocabulary and replace those dreaded Iranian words. I just want the dialects to change a bit and sound more, if I may be subjective here, Iraqi Koine (not too Urmian though). There's a reason why so many people with Ashiret and even Urmian dialects put an effort to sound like Iraqi Koiners (Assyrian singers for starters usually sing in Iraqi Koine mostly, even if they're Tyari/others). It's a prestigious and refined dialect today. Have I got anything against those who speak hardcore Jilu or Tyari dialects? No, of course not. Much respect to them. But if people like Mrzurnaci want to combine or merge our languages, we should start teaching people to speak in a standard, universal dialect (in my opinion, being Iraqi Koine). One of my pet peeves is the over-usages of "ch" and "th". Really hurts my ears. But oh well...
That's actually not why at all. FuSHa is based on Classical Arabic, whereas BBC English is just the dialect spoken by the upper-class of the London area. These are just prestige dialects--they're standard because they're spoken by the powerful. It's the same reason why Standard French is based on Parisian (because Paris is the capital) and Standard Italian is based on Florentine (because Florence was an economic powerhouse at the time Italian was standardized) and Mandarin is the "official" Chinese (because it's native to northern China/Beijing).
Fair enough. But why does Fus'ha Arabic sound relatively nicer and pleasant than other Arabic forms? Same thing with BBC English. Don't they just sound good to the ears? Incidentally, from what I heard, (upper class?) Brits in the renaissance and middle ages spoke with an accent similar to West Country English. The poetic works of Shakespeare don't rhyme well in a London accent, but they do so in southwestern English. So SWE was a prestigious dialect at that time as well. Why don't they use it anymore? Okay, maybe accents evolve, or maybe, just maybe, it started to sound too comical and risible by modern standards, so they switched to the RP accent in the Victorian Era or so. I do not know. I'm just theorizing.
Okay, now you might say that since we're used to listening to fus'ha and BBC English, they'll "sound better" as we're accustomed to them. But I really beg to differ. I mean, I've been surrounded by Iraqi Arab speakers and Australian English speakers all my life. And I still think that Iraqi Arabs have a trashy accent and Australian English (its lower class form) is rather grating. So it's not always about what we're used to. At least, it's not always in my case.
I actually prefer the way Turoyo sounds over Urmian, personally. Not that my opinion matters.
Fair enough. Like I said, they've rightfully retained some classical Syriac words. Wish we had done the same, as instead of replacing them with Iranian words. Mind you, I'm also not the biggest fan of that hardcore, psuedo-Persian sounding Urmian variant (where they say "raba" like "robo" - gee, relax Lol). This is the Urmian dialect I find nice to hear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQTrxXOQpk4 But, I still prefer Iraqi Koine or "standard Assyrian" (listen to Linda George).
You can use anecdotal evidence to make the case for or against how "nice" any language sounds, all it takes is a simple Google search.
Anecdotal or not, two people already admire the sound of our language within a span of months and from an unpopular Wikipedia page. A personal opinion is not really anecdotal anyway. Describing an alleged apparition of a religious figure or saying you were visited by a ghost is. To an extent, everything is anecdotal and subjective anyway. Hell, most people find Angelina Jolie beautiful. Subjective? Of course. But the views of the mass matters. You can't be like "well that's anecdotal and subjective, maybe she isn't beautiful to some people". Come on, that's a bit overreaching.
If anything, I think Urmian sounds like an offshoot of Persian (at least Arabic is a fellow Semitic language). Even if the standard dialect we choose happened to have the exact same phonological inventory as Arabic, it still wouldn't matter: we shouldn't let outside perceptions affect our decision. Again, our language is
our language.
It does sound Persian. Like I said, I was never a fan of the thicker Urmian variants. Listen to Sargis Sangari. I really dislike his accent. He's just speaking Assyrian in a Farsi accent for crying out loud. However, personally, I would still prefer it over Turoyo. I really don't understand, and dislike, why they've replaced their "A" with "O". But that's just me. Yes, our language is our language, but we can still clean it up a bit. :mrgreen:
P.S. This reply was not having a go at your linguistic skills. I'm only speaking on my own perspective and view (aka, my beautiful ears Lol). I admire and commend your skills, as always.