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How to write this in Assyrian?

Steve Pireh

New member
Hi. I would like somebody to write my sons name in Assyrian.  Thanks. His name is Zane Edward James. Also translate my surname, Pireh. Thank you.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Steve Pireh said:
Hi. I would like somebody to write my sons name in Assyrian.  Thanks. His name is Zane Edward James. Also translate my surname, Pireh. Thank you.
your name = ܦܝܼܪܹܐ
 

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Carlo

Active member
Haha mrzurnaci, the way you spelled "Zane" looks exactly like the word for "he fornicates." :giggle:

I think you're also a bit off on some vowel and rukakha points, but the consonants look right.

Steve Pireh said:
Hi. I would like somebody to write my sons name in Assyrian.  Thanks. His name is Zane Edward James. Also translate my surname, Pireh. Thank you.
Is "Zane" pronounced like "zayn" (rhymes with "rain")? Did you want "James" translated ("Ya`qov" or "Jacob," like what mrzurnaci did) or transliterated (like "Jaymz" spelled out)? Same goes for your last name (translated or transliterated?). Also, how do you pronounce "Pireh" exactly?
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Carlo said:
Haha mrzurnaci, the way you spelled "Zane" looks exactly like the word for "he fornicates." :giggle:

I think you're also a bit off on some vowel and rukakha points, but the consonants look right.
fornicate? u mean zna? they also say that in Turkish, Persian, Arabic, and Kurdi so I'm not sure of it, but yea lol

you sure I'm a bit off on some voweling? as I am writing foreign names except yaqob. I am actually interested in knowing if I did the Western Sureth vowel marks correctly.

also, how's this version?
 

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Steve Pireh

New member
Zane is pronounced rhyming with rain. Yes, James also pronounced like jaymz. Pireh is pronounced Pee-reh. If that helps. Thank you.
 

Zawoyo

New member
mrzurnaci, to Your vowels in western sureyt:

Not every A is in our dialect an O ;) We say zAne and yAqub too :)
The wovels in the words can often vary in our Turoyo dialect but the last wovel is always an O if it comes to nouns and adjectives in singular, like in Your Swadaya dialect it?s an A.
 

Carlo

Active member
mrzurnaci said:
fornicate? u mean zna? they also say that in Turkish, Persian, Arabic, and Kurdi so I'm not sure of it, but yea lol
The form "zane'" is the present form of the word (what's called the "masculine singular active participle"). The form "zna'" is the old past tense of the verb (what's called the "third person masculine singular perfect PEAL"). It's like this:

From the root Z-N-' (ܙܢܐ, relating to "fornicating")

  • ܙܵܢܹܐ, ZaNe' ("he fornicates")
  • ܙܢܵܐ, ZNa' ("he fornicated")
  • ܙܢܹܐ ܠܹܗ, ZNe' leh ("It was fornicated by him")

From the root X-Z-' (ܚܙܐ, relating to "seeing")

  • ܚܵܙܹܐ, XaZe' ("he sees")
  • ܚܙܵܐ, XZa' ("he saw")
  • ܚܙܹܐ ܠܹܗ, XZe' leh ("It was seen by him")

Nowadays in our modern Eastern dialect, the second form doesn't exist and the third form has replaced it (since "It was seen by him" essentially means the same thing as "he saw [it]"). You can plug this formula in with other roots ending in alaph using the root letters as variables and get the same effect (e.g., XaXe' is always "he [verb]s", XXa' is "he [verb]ed"). For example, K-L-' (ܟܠܐ, relating to "stopping") -> ܟܵܠܹܐ KaLe' ("he stops"), ܟܠܵܐ KLa' ("he stopped"), etc.

I'm sure the other languages got the word from Arabic, since it's a Semitic root (also found in Hebrew).

mrzurnaci said:
you sure I'm a bit off on some voweling? as I am writing foreign names except yaqob. I am actually interested in knowing if I did the Western Sureth vowel marks correctly.

also, how's this version?
I think you're using zqapa when you should be using pthaxa. Remember that the former is long (like in "father") and the latter is short (like in "fat"). If you actually pronounced "Zane"/"Zayn" with a long "a," it sounds over accentuated, like it rhymes with "Rhine" rather than "rain."

For "Edward," I would've used a zlama psheeqa instead of a zlama qashya. Even though us Eastern speakers tend to pronounce zlama psheeqa like "fit" ("Idward"), it used to be like "bet." Both the zlama vowels were probably the same sound once and then diverged later, hence why Western speakers only have one vowel for our two. Zlama qashya tends to only come before silent(ish) or missing letters (mostly alaph and he).

Also, remember that the Western zeqofo (Eastern zqapa) went from the "a" in "father" to an "o." The Western fthoxo (Eastern pthaxa) stayed like the "a" in "fat." The name "Ya`qov" is written and pronounced with a pthaxa.

Finally, the Western script doesn't have the dot over the waw (rwaxa). All their original "o" sounds merged with "u," so they have one vowel mark for our rwaxa and rvaca. In cases of foreign words with "o" (like the Greek ending "-os"), they usually write zeqofo followed by a waw (like "ow," though we would pronounce it "aw").

Zawoyo said:
mrzurnaci, to Your vowels in western sureyt:

Not every A is in our dialect an O ;) We say zAne and yAqub too :)
The wovels in the words can often vary in our Turoyo dialect but the last wovel is always an O if it comes to nouns and adjectives in singular, like in Your Swadaya dialect it?s an A.
Wait, so do you guys say "katheb" or "kotheb" for "he writes?"

EDIT: Okay, so here's how I would write it:



Though I'm not too sure what the Western speakers use for a foreign "j" sound, so I just used the Garshuni gamal. I have no idea whether that's right or not.
 

Steve Pireh

New member
Hi. Just checking Carlos last post. Is that zane Edward James in 2 different fonts? Also I'm just curious which dialect it is? Thanks.
 

Zawoyo

New member
Carlo said:
Wait, so do you guys say "katheb" or "kotheb" for "he writes?"
no one of both. In kthobonoyo we say "kthab" and in Turoyo "kthaw." "kthobo" becomes "kthowo" in Turoyo.
As I said, The wovels in the words can often vary in our Turoyo dialect but the last wovel is always an O if it comes to nouns and adjectives in singular.
In kthobonoyo we say "radhoyto" to "car" but all say "radhayto" in Turoyo. Or some say "nukhroyutho" like it is in kthobonoyo but some say "nukhrayutho" too.
I don?t know how it is if it comes to verbs. I think the vowels are more important if it comes to verbs, so You can?t change the vowels in verbs (often).
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Carlo said:
Well Garshuni is ANY foreign language using our alphabet. So I always use Garshuni Gamal for G or arabic G sound

also in the picture, why did you put Qushaya on Dalath, Kaph, and Beth? doesn't seem necessary.
 

Carlo

Active member
Steve Pireh said:
Hi. Just checking Carlos last post. Is that zane Edward James in 2 different fonts? Also I'm just curious which dialect it is? Thanks.
Hey Steve, that's in two different "scripts," the Eastern script (for the Eastern dialect) on top and the Western script (for the Western dialect) on the bottom. They're not really "fonts" because you can have different fonts for the same script, like here: http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Syriac.html. There are many different fonts for the three different scripts. On that site, they're called "Estrangelo" (Classical), "Serto" (Western), and "Eastern Syriac."

One more important thing I almost forgot to mention: because I was using mrzurnaci's image as a base, the spelling of the last name in my last post is "Jacob," not "James." So "Zayn Edward Jaymz" would look like this:



Zawoyo said:
no one of both. In kthobonoyo we say "kthab" and in Turoyo "kthaw." "kthobo" becomes "kthowo" in Turoyo.
As I said, The wovels in the words can often vary in our Turoyo dialect but the last wovel is always an O if it comes to nouns and adjectives in singular.
In kthobonoyo we say "radhoyto" to "car" but all say "radhayto" in Turoyo. Or some say "nukhroyutho" like it is in kthobonoyo but some say "nukhrayutho" too.
I don?t know how it is if it comes to verbs. I think the vowels are more important if it comes to verbs, so You can?t change the vowels in verbs (often).
Very interesting (and strange :blink:), John. So "kthab/kthaw" specifically means "he writes" (and not "he wrote")?

mrzurnaci said:
Well Garshuni is ANY foreign language using our alphabet. So I always use Garshuni Gamal for G or arabic G sound
a) I've never seen the Garshuni gamal along with majliyana, I always just see gamal with majliyana.

b) As far as I know, the Western script doesn't use majliyana.

I could be wrong on both counts, though.

But imagine for a second that you're not writing in a foreign language but our own. Then how would you spell it (since it's not Garshuni, by definition)? And don't say Ya`qov (ܝܥܩܘܒ), that doesn't count. My name in English is not "Charles," it's still "Carlo." :)

mrzurnaci said:
also in the picture, why did you put Qushaya on Dalath, Kaph, and Beth? doesn't seem necessary.
You're right when it comes to the final dalath in "Edward" and the kaph in "Jacob," but in classical pronunciation, you would expect to see "Edhward" and "Jacov."

In the old days, every B-G-D-K-P-T letter had to have either a rukakha or qushaya mark. It was only later on that they started leaving the qushaya out, then they only used it in special cases to mark the hard letter when you would expect it to be soft (like in "Edhward" and "Jacov"). I just did it the old way and stuck qushaya on every letter that could take it. :)

Also, if it doesn't seem necessary here, you'd have to ask yourself why the qushaya mark exists in the first place and its purpose.
 

Zawoyo

New member
ups, You are asking for "he writes." la yaden qamudi, bas ana khshuwali baqret modi ile "write." ... "he writes" means "ko-kothw."
 

Steve Pireh

New member
Thanks alot Carlo. Also would you be able to do my sons date of birth, if I'm right there isn't specific digits, but words? 18-12-08. Thank you.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Carlo said:
You're right when it comes to the final dalath in "Edward" and the kaph in "Jacob," but in classical pronunciation, you would expect to see "Edhward" and "Jacov."

In the old days, every B-G-D-K-P-T letter had to have either a rukakha or qushaya mark. It was only later on that they started leaving the qushaya out, then they only used it in special cases to mark the hard letter when you would expect it to be soft (like in "Edhward" and "Jacov"). I just did it the old way and stuck qushaya on every letter that could take it. :)

Also, if it doesn't seem necessary here, you'd have to ask yourself why the qushaya mark exists in the first place and its purpose.
i like neonizing assyrian words!
 

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Carlo

Active member
Zawoyo said:
ups, You are asking for "he writes." la yaden qamudi, bas ana khshuwali baqret modi ile "write." ... "he writes" means "ko-kothw."
Your East Assyrian dialect skills are freaking incredible, bas mur "le" la "ile" bar zaw`e ("modi le" oola "modi ile"). :)

Steve Pireh said:
Thanks alot Carlo. Also would you be able to do my sons date of birth, if I'm right there isn't specific digits, but words? 18-12-08. Thank you.
Dates are weird. By "words" do you mean "written out" (which is the normal way of writing it) like "December eighteenth two thousand and eight," or did you want the Assyrian numeral version of 18-12-08 (which doesn't really exist as far as I know) like how Roman numerals would be "XVIII-XII-VIII?" I'm guessing 18-12-08 is the "modern" (Gregorian calendar) date. Was there any particular calendar (Julian or Gregorian) or era (common or Seleucid) you wanted it adapted to? As I write this, it's September 15th in the Gregorian calendar but September 2nd in the Julian calendar, and the year 2010 in the common era but the year 2321 in the Seleucid era and the year 6760 in the old Assyrian calendar. Some of the differences (like Julian vs. Gregorian) have to do with the different churches. The "modern" (Gregorian) calendar isn't always the one most commonly used.

--------------------------------------------

mrzurnaci, that's a very interesting way of writing "18-12-08." Wrong, but interesting. :)

I think you meant to write yudh, xeth - yudh, beth - xeth (ܝܚ-ܝܒ-ܚ). Assyrian numerals don't work like Arabic numerals, it's a different beast altogether. You can't just subsitute digits, just like in Roman numerals if "1" is "I" and "5" is "V" then "15" is not "IV."

You need to do some addition with Assyrian numerals: to get "18," you need to add "10" (yudh) and "8" ("xeth") by writing them next to each other (with the higher digit first): ܝܚ.
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Carlo said:
mrzurnaci, that's a very interesting way of writing "18-12-08." Wrong, but interesting. :)

I think you meant to write yudh, xeth - yudh, beth - xeth (ܝܚ-ܝܒ-ܚ). Assyrian numerals don't work like Arabic numerals, it's a different beast altogether. You can't just subsitute digits, just like in Roman numerals if "1" is "I" and "5" is "V" then "15" is not "IV."

You need to do some addition with Assyrian numerals: to get "18," you need to add "10" (yudh) and "8" ("xeth") by writing them next to each other (with the higher digit first): ܝܚ.
OMG dude your right, i totally forgot it was like that damn.
 

Zawoyo

New member
Carlo said:
Your East Assyrian dialect skills are freaking incredible, bas mur "le" la "ile" bar zaw`e ("modi le" oola "modi ile"). :)
basima! :) raba makhben le?sa madnkhaya, u ap madnkhaya leshani le, zadeq d yalpen le ;)

bayet amret zadeq d kethwen "modi le" sabab it zaw?a (i) qam "le" ?
u iman zadeq d amren "ile" ?
 
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