Greatest mesopotamian civilization

[Neta1991]

Who was the greatest mesopotamian civilization?

I say sumerian.

 

[Neta1991]

I say the Medes.

the medes were not mesopotamian. mesopotamians were the sumerians, akkadians, babylonians and assyrians.

 

[Etain]

Mesopotamia was part of the greater Median Empire.

Also, the Medes were genetically connected to the northern parts of the Mesopotamia like the Sumerians. Sumerians were also West Iranian people (like Gutians, Mitanni, Kassites & Medes etc.) who came from the Zagros Mountains and brought some science into (Southern) Mesopotamia.

Of all Sumerian cultures I would say that Ubaid Culture was the most advanced.


Sumerian Ubaid culture has evolved from the Leyla-Tepe culture. Leyla-Tepe culture came from the Iranian Plateau.


Leyla-Tepe culture was not only resposible for Sumerian Ubaid Culture, but also for the Maykop and the second stage Indo-European Yamnaya culture.

We can assume that Leyla-Tepe culture was a proto-West Iranian culture...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyla-Tepe_culture

everything you said is wrong and stupid

 

[Cascade]

Mesopotamia was part of the greater Median Empire.

Also, the Medes were genetically connected to the northern parts of the Mesopotamia like the Sumerians. Sumerians were also West Iranian people (like Gutians, Mitanni, Kassites & Medes etc.) who came from the Zagros Mountains and brought some science into (Southern) Mesopotamia.

Of all Sumerian cultures I would say that Ubaid Culture was the most advanced.


Sumerian Ubaid culture has evolved from the Leyla-Tepe culture. Leyla-Tepe culture came from the Iranian Plateau.


Leyla-Tepe culture was not only resposible for Sumerian Ubaid Culture, but also for the Maykop and the second stage Indo-European Yamnaya culture.

We can assume that Leyla-Tepe culture was a proto-West Iranian culture...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyla-Tepe_culture

The Medes originate in the Iranian peninsula. You know this. Their empire just happened to stretch into the Mesopotamian region. You know this.

Sumerians are not Iranid, since Iranian peoples originate to north in the Zagros. You know this too. You're only claiming Sumerians because they don't speak a Semitic language and that they are the first civilization in the word, and so they're now somehow "special" and would fit your Aryan narrative. Also, Sumerians have more in common with modern day "Semites", such as Marsh Arabs and Mandeans than Iranian peoples. Please research this. I already went through this with you.

P.S. If Sumerians are Iranians how come they don't speak an Indo-European language? Maybe because they both have nothing to do with both Iranians and Semitic speaking peoples much. Although historical facts still show that Assyrians, Akkadians and other Semitic speaking are more akin to Sumerians.

 

[Neta1991]

Hmm, the only real immigrants to that area were actually the ancestors of the Assyrians, the Akkadians who came from Arabia and the Levant.

You are confusing Upper Mesopotamia with Lower Mesopotamia. This is the Upper Mesopotamia:

Upper Mesopotamian was actually always part of the Nothern Mountains and has always been populated by people from the Mountains.


Summerians spoke a some kind of a 'proto-' language what scientists call an unclassified language (isolate). But 'unclassified' doesn't mean that it couldn't be ancestral to the Iranian languages.


Here is a list of common Sumerian and Kurdish (West Iranian) words:

! No longer available
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We have also evidence that there was a migration into the Mesopotamia during the Sumerian era. The Ubaid period evoved into the Uruk period.


There is archaeological evidence that the Ubaid culture came from the mountains, more precisely from Leyla-Tepe culture or a culture similar to Leyla-Tepe. Leyla-Tepe "culture has also been linked to the north Ubaid period monuments,[4] in particular, with the settlements in the Eastern Anatolia Region (Arslantepe, Coruchu-tepe, Tepechik, etc.)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyla-Tepe_culture


+ there is growing genetic evidence that the so called 'Uruk' immigrants (expansion) from the Mesopotamia were actually linked (genetically) to the Iranian Plateau.



Real Sumerians from the 'UPPER' Mesopotamia evolved actually into the West Iranians and have nothing to do with the Marsh Arabs, Mandeans etc.



But to stay on topic the greatest mesopotamian civilization was that of the Medes. The Medes were the first who came with the 'Median laws & philosofy' etc.


The second greatest would be the Sumerian Ubaid period, which had direct links with the culture from the mountains (Leyla-Tepe culture or culture related to Leyla-Tepe)

WE ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF THE SUMERIANS, U ARE NOTHING, GIVE UP, U PISS ME OFF. we are the descendants of the mesopotamians, medes are not mesopotamians, stop claiming our land and steal our history, fucking bitches. Leave this forum. this is assyrian forum not facking kurdish forum

 

[Etain]

The Sumerians weren't Iranic you idiot.

 

[Neta1991]

The Sumerians weren't Iranic you idiot.

First there were the sumerians and then akkadians conquered them and they both fucked each other and made babies with each other and then akkadians/sumerians became assyrians and babylonians.

 

[Etain]

First there were the sumerians and then akkadians conquered them and they both ****ed each other and made babies with each other and then akkadians/sumerians became assyrians and babylonians.

https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/history_early_iran.pdf

 

[mrzurnaci]

Hmm, the only real immigrants to that area were actually the ancestors of the Assyrians, the Akkadians who came from Arabia and the Levant.

yes and Akkadians were already living there by the time of the Sumerians...
Akkadians and Semitic people did not come from Arabia, that's a Kurdish myth. the ancestors of Semitic people entered the Middle East from Egypt and then spread across the middle east, some went north, east into mesopotamia, and south into Arabia...

Summerians spoke a some kind of a 'proto-' language what scientists call an unclassified language (isolate). But 'unclassified' doesn't mean that it couldn't be ancestral to the Iranian languages.


Here is a list of common Sumerian and Kurdish (West Iranian) words:

! No longer available
! No longer available

Firstly, that makes no sense considering the Sumerians themselves said their ancestors came from Dilmun area aka Bahrain, Qatar, and the Shi'a side of Saudi Arabia...

Secondly, the video uses alot of outdated, projected, plus proven-wrong information, especially concerning the Russian researchers. Also, the video shows a very biased political side to it. Why does it claim that Turks have always been against Kurds? Firstly, If the Turks truly wanted to destroy the Kurdish language, they would've done alot more than just "ban the language". Banning a language has never killed a language except in probably ancient times when books were hand-copied...

The video makes Kurds seem like Assyrians in denial for how desperate it tries to tie in Kurds with Sumerians.

 

[Etain]

Lol, you have nothing to do with the (northern, real) Sumerians. First of all, you speak Semitic. Secondly, Sumerians became later known as Mitanni and were not really mixed with the Akkadians.

I mean, even I have much much more in common with the Sumerians than you. My native ancient West Iranian Yezidi culture/religion that is at least 6767 yars old is much closer the Sumerian one, Sumerian mythology etc..

You are descended from IE speaking horse riders from India. Iranians WERE NOT EVEN IN THE PLATEAU until 2,000 BC.

 

[Cascade]

Hmm, the only real immigrants to that area were actually the ancestors of the Assyrians, the Akkadians who came from Arabia and the Levant.

You are confusing Upper Mesopotamia with Lower Mesopotamia. This is the Upper Mesopotamia:

So you now want Aryans to descend from the people who originate from the hot, arid Gulf region? You know, a place that has had Arabs living there for millennias and has been associated with them? So much for the Zagros mountains urheimat (which is all the way in the north). What a way to confuse yourself with Arabs/Semites (you're doing a good job with that). Just choose one location already for your people's homeland, honestly. Wasn't it in the Zagros mountains in Iran?  :blink:

Sumeria was closer to Arabia. Please look at that map again. Southern Iraq, where Sumer is, is like hours away from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait by driving. Heck, that part of the region has the most proto-Semitic looking kind of people (dark afro hair, brown skin). And yet you expect your people to evolve from that? Lol. I thought you didn't want to have such "subsaharan" features. Southern Iraq and the Gulf (the region where Sumerians come from) will rightfully be really dark and afro looking, so unlike Aryans. Sumerians in their art were portrayed as having coiled hair (not so Aryan):

Real Sumerians from the 'UPPER' Mesopotamia evolved actually into the West Iranians and have nothing to do with the Marsh Arabs, Mandeans etc

Wrong. You know very well that Sumerians became Assyrian and Akkadians at that time as their empires engulfed the south. They probably interbred with the Sumerians and "meshed in". Why the hell would they turn into Iranians when Sumerians are based in southern Mesopotamia and Iranians come from the Iranian peninsula? Such much for Zagros mountains origins, really.

To not be very biased, Sumerians will be probably modern day Marsh Arabs rather than Assyrians, as we came from the north. And they'll certainly not be Iranid, as you come from the northeast (and you already know this). But if anything, I would say modern day Sumerians are the common ancestors of modern day Mesopotamian Arabs, Assyrians, Mandeans and, yes, maybe some Iranian peoples. There isn't a person alive today who is 100% Sumerian.

Lol, you have nothing to do with the (northern, real) Sumerians. First of all, you speak Semitic. Secondly, Sumerians became later known as Mitanni and were not really mixed with the Akkadians.

I mean, even I have much much more in common with the Sumerians than you. My native ancient West Iranian Yezidi culture/religion that is at least 6767 yars old is much closer the Sumerian one, Sumerian mythology etc..

Etain is an American. Lol.

And you speak an Indo-Iranian language. Come on. That's not a argument. Both us don't speak a Sumerian language (which is a language isolate and is now extinct). So let's not insult each other by saying that we speak a different language than the Sumerians do, when BOTH OF US don't speak their language.

So because your Yazidi mythology is as old as the Sumerian one it has to be homogeneous to it? Not a good logic. You know very well that Yazidis come from the north, bordering Iran, whilst Sumerians are from the south. How the hell does that make you two related?

 

[Cascade]

Sumerians of the UPPER Mesopotamia had genetic and archaeological ties with the mountains. Zagors Mountaisn are very, very close to the Mesopotamia. There is a link between Leyla-Tepe culture and the Sumerian Ubaid culture.

Except that there were no Sumerians in northern Mesopotamia. Sumerians are based in lower Mesopotamia. When the Akkadian empire stretched to Sumer, the people got mixed with each other and that's how you got Sumerians up in the north.

Sumerian culture in the UPPER Mesopotamia (North) called 'Halaf culture' is dated back to 6100 BCE. At that time there were no Semitic speaking people in the Upper Mesopotamia.

Of course, because the Semitic language wasn't formed at that time. But the ancestors of "Semitic speaking people" were always there. They just didn't speak a Semitic language as they hadn't had "invented" one. This isn't brain surgery. You have this strange notion that Semitic speaking peoples are a race who suddenly appeared out of thin air after their languages did. Lol. You do realize that the "Semites" didn't always speak a Semitic language, right?  Languages and people don't just appear out of the oblivion.

And I don't care where the Semtiic people are from. From China, North Pole or Arabia. My point was that they were immigrants to the Mesopotamia and they came from somewhere else. First Semitic people were NOT native to the Mesopotamia. Of course, 5000 years living in Mesopotamia, Assyrians can consider themselves nowadays native to Mesopotamia!!!

Same way Iranid people are "immigrants" to Zagros mountains. You didn't pop out of nowhere in that region. You also came from different places, just the same way we did.

Sumerian people like those from Halaf culture predate Semites by thousands of years. And according to me those native Mesopotamian people had genetic links with the Zagros Mountain folks from the Neolithic times...

What Semites? Why use biblical terms to label people? "Semites" existed at that time but they didn't speak a Semitic language. They spoke an extinct, language isolate. They were in the Levant and others were Sumerians. These people gave rise to Semitic speaking folks who come from Mesopotamia.

Of course, Iranian people may have Sumerian heritage, as would anyone in the Middle East. But to say that West Iranians are 100% Sumerian is completely erroneous. Like I said, the more "truer" modern day Sumerians are likely to be Marsh Arabs, followed by us, Iraqi Arabs, Gulf Arabs and then Western Iranians. So don't fret, you're also included.

P.S. Northern Mesopotamia is in the Levant (read about that). So saying Assyrians originally "come from the Levant, not Mesopotamia" makes as perfect sense as saying "Maltese come from Malta, not the Mediterranean".

 

[mrzurnaci]

Sumerian culture in the UPPER Mesopotamia (North) called 'Halaf culture' is dated back to 6100 BCE. At that time there were no Semitic speaking people in the Upper Mesopotamia.

And I don't care where the Semtiic people are from. From China, North Pole or Arabia. My point was that they were immigrants to the Mesopotamia and they came from somewhere else. First Semitic people were NOT native to the Mesopotamia. Of course, 5000 years living in Mesopotamia, Assyrians can consider themselves nowadays native to Mesopotamia!!!

Sumerian people like those from Halaf culture predate Semites by thousands of years. And according to me those native Mesopotamian people had genetic links with the Zagros Mountain folks from the Neolithic times...


What I'm trying to tell is that ancient Sumerian people and Neolitic Iranian Plateau people from the Kurdish Zagros Mountains were similar to each other...

that's not the reason why we're native to Mesopotamia, we Assyrians are native because Mesopotamia was where our identity, culture, etc. was born in. The same with Babylon had it not die out during the Seleucid empire.

No Semitic speaking people in upper mesopotamia? What about proto-Semitic speakers?

Sumeria developed alongside Semitic peoples you know... Sumerians weren't the only people living in southern Mesopotamia.

Sumerians called themselves the "black headed people" so how were they similar to pre-Aryan iranians?