• Our popular and beloved forums are finally back, after being down since April 2018 due to hosting and server issues. We have now switched to a better platform, while maintenaing all data as it was before (contents and user names) . Thank you for your patience and loyalty. If you have any questions, need to report an error, or are having trouble logging in, please email us at: assyrianvoice@rogers.com

Are you as an Assyrian for or against Kurdish referendum in Iraq .

Are you as an Assyrian FOR or AGAINST Kurdistan referendum

  • Totally against the Kurdish referendum

    Votes: 9 69.2%
  • For Kurdish referendum

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • I simply do not care and will not vote

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Total voters
    13

nejepnerast

New member
Mr. Tambourine Man said:
Yes, it must be tiring and exhausting for the Kurds to steal Assyrian lands, claim Assyrian history and disseminate lies about the Assyrians. You're right, the Kurdish workload is tiresome.
Sorry Mr.Tambourine , I'm actually recently left Kurdistan and I'm not aware of any land being confiscated by KRG , Can you shed some light on that by providing some evidence ?  or Are you talking about the Ancient history ?

claim Assyrian history ? Just to make it fun , I promise I will send you the biggest gift I could possibly afford if you can prove this :). Kurd have never ever made such claims and would never ever do for very obvious reasons  .

Mr. Tambourine Man said:
Look at the polls yourself, those for the Kurdish referendum are only one behind those against it - unless of course you find one vote, or any vote, against the Kurdish referendum enough reason not to help the indigenous people of those lands. I suppose you'd want all of us to vote, better yet, fund the establishment of a Kurdish state.
At the end of the day majority are either do not care or opposed it and I have ZERO issues with that as an individual . But let us be frank here , the animosity among our people is real and honestly i was not even aware of it when i was in Kurdistan . As I said I have no personal issue with Assyrian Vote and I understand it to a certain extend , but let me ask you this  . how would you feel if the result of the this vote was for the establishment of autonomous region for Assyrian in Kurdistan and majority of Kurds opposed it ?

I do not believe an independent Kurdistan will have any effect on the Assyrian identity and there is a real possibility that Assyrian could finally get their rights and establish a region on their own , Yet majority is voting No ! Do not you find that a bit strange ? Frankly I'm just curious and I want to understand .

Mr. Tambourine Man said:
Additionally, your justification is stupid. You legitimise the Kurdish funding and proliferation of the Chaldean identity because 'there is an interest there'; what you're basically saying is that the Kurds realise how advantageous it is for them to lie about a Chaldean identity because it'll prohibit the unification of Assyrians.
I never talked about Chaldean , so I have no clue what you are saying .Chaldean as far as I know have their own identity and wants nothing to do with Assyrian . Are you claiming that Chaldean are Assyrian are the same and some how the kurds are the reason for your separation  ? oh ok i get , you are upset because Kurds accepting the Chaldean identity and not telling them that they are Assyrian and that is causing the division among Assyrians including Chaldean who are Assyrian , but just not smart enough to know ?
 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
Sorry Mr.Tambourine , I'm actually recently left Kurdistan and I'm not aware of any land being confiscated by KRG , Can you shed some light on that by providing some evidence ?  or Are you talking about the Ancient history ?

At the end of the day majority are either do not care or opposed it and I have ZERO issues with that as an individual . But let us be frank here , the animosity among our people is real and honestly i was not even aware of it when i was in Kurdistan . As I said I have no personal issue with Assyrian Vote and I understand it to a certain extend , but let me ask you this  . how would you feel if the result of the this vote was for the establishment of autonomous region for Assyrian in Kurdistan and majority of Kurds opposed it ?

I do not believe an independent Kurdistan will have any effect on the Assyrian identity and there is a real possibility that Assyrian could finally get their rights and establish a region on their own , Yet majority is voting No ! Do not you find that a bit strange ? Frankly I'm just curious and I want to understand .
I never talked about Chaldean , so I have no clue what you are saying .Chaldean as far as I know have their own identity and wants nothing to do with Assyrian . Are you claiming that Chaldean are Assyrian are the same and some how the kurds are the reason for your separation  ? oh ok i get , you are upset because Kurds accepting the Chaldean identity and not telling them that they are Assyrian and that is causing the division among Assyrians including Chaldean who are Assyrian , but just not smart enough to know ?
Kurds accepting Chaldean identity would be no different to Assyrians accepting the Yazidi identity separate from Kurds.
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
Kurds accepting Chaldean identity would be no different to Assyrians accepting the Yazidi identity separate from Kurds.
and I have no issue if they decided to call themselves Assyrian tommorrow  . I met many Chaldean in Dohuk and honestly if it is up to me I will nominate a Chaldean to be the first president of Kurdistan if it ever get established . Hell I will make half of the parliament Chaldean and sleep like a baby knowing Kurdistan is in Good hand because of kind of people Chaldean are .

Khili libokh Chaldanaya  :bigarmhug:
 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
and I have no issue if they decided to call themselves Assyrian tommorrow  . I met many Chaldean in Dohuk and honestly if it is up to me I will nominate a Chaldean to be the first president of Kurdistan if it ever get established . Hell I will make half of the parliament Chaldean and sleep like a baby knowing Kurdistan is in Good hand because of kind of people Chaldean are .

Khili libokh Chaldanaya  :bigarmhug:
Also, why would the KRG make it public that they have groups of people stealing land? Assyrians aren't the only victims either, we Assyrians have also found out that Armenians and non-political Kurdish tribes were victimized in having their land taken as well.

What land was taken? farming land.
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
Also, why would the KRG make it public that they have groups of people stealing land? Assyrians aren't the only victims either, we Assyrians have also found out that Armenians and non-political Kurdish tribes were victimized in having their land taken as well.

What land was taken? farming land.
Mrzurnaci , let us be realistic please and not rely on rumeurs or my cousin said , my uncle said . Fine KRG would not make it public ,but what about the owner of the land ?
Show me a farmer that KRG took their land from . I mean seriously sometimes I feel you guys live on another planet . There is law and order in Kurdistan and no one would dare to take someone else land .

The public land is another matter and KRG has the right to develop as it see it fit no matter where it is even in the assyrian areas  . The problem is the allergy assyrian have towards kurds , On one hand they want the right to buy land , homes everywhere in Kurdistan , but they want to keep kurds within 10 miles from the nearest village . Land in Kurdistan is expensive and developing public land will happen whether people like or not because it belongs to all people not just the Assyrian . 

 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
Mrzurnaci , let us be realistic please and not rely on rumeurs or my cousin said , my uncle said . Fine KRG would not make it public ,but what about the owner of the land ?
Show me a farmer that KRG took their land from . I mean seriously sometimes I feel you guys live on another planet . There is law and order in Kurdistan and no one would dare to take someone else land .

The public land is another matter and KRG has the right to develop as it see it fit no matter where it is even in the assyrian areas  . The problem is the allergy assyrian have towards kurds , On one hand they want the right to buy land , homes everywhere in Kurdistan , but they want to keep kurds within 10 miles from the nearest village . Land in Kurdistan is expensive and developing public land will happen whether people like or not because it belongs to all people not just the Assyrian . 
we assyrians already did investigations into this. Despite the way Assyrians phrase this issue, it's not the average Kurd taking land. It's Kurds with power that have the connections to do so. Kurds that are either related or have connections to either Barzani, Zebari, or other political clans using such influence to take land from, not just Assyrians, but less influential Kurdish clans, and even Armenians.

Here's my source -> http://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/Kurdistan.Report.pdf
Here's the condensed version of the source -> http://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/KurdistanReport_short_FINAL_lowres.pdf

For the condensed version, I got my info from page 5 called "Control of Disputed Territories and Allegations of Kurdification"
on page 8 condensed version -> "Appropriation of Christian Land"

"Christian citizens of the KRI have issued complaints and
held protests against Kurdish residents for attacking and
seizing their land and villages in the provinces of Dohuk
and Erbil. Some Assyrian Christians accuse Kurdish gov-
ernment and party officials of taking lands for personal
use or financial gain. These Christians believe they
are specifically targeted as part of a policy to Kurdify
historically Christian areas. Other Christian leaders do
not believe a policy exists, but do concede that individual
Kurds and Kurdish businesses have been known to build
on or take Christian land.

Effectively, two types of land appropriation exist.
Significant portions of the claims are long-standing land
ownership issues. Through the late 20th century, Assyri-
ans were caught up in various regional uprisings and sup-
pressions. As a result of these events, large portions of the
population fled their homes and land, for which they con-
tinued to hold the deeds. Over time, Kurds moved in to the
fallow land. Now Christians are returning with their deeds
and attempting to reclaim lands or be compensated
.
In addition to these long-standing claims are
alleged incidents where powerful local officials or
businesses seize land on which to build new properties.
Assyrian leaders alluded to various cases where Kurd-
ish officials, or individuals or developers with links
to officials, have built on land owned by Christians
.
Seizures in the Nahla Valley have received particular
attention; here, Christians allege 42 encroachments in
the villages in recent years."
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
we assyrians already did investigations into this. Despite the way Assyrians phrase this issue, it's not the average Kurd taking land. It's Kurds with power that have the connections to do so. Kurds that are either related or have connections to either Barzani, Zebari, or other political clans using such influence to take land from, not just Assyrians, but less influential Kurdish clans, and even Armenians.

Here's my source -> http://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/Kurdistan.Report.pdf
Here's the condensed version of the source -> http://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/KurdistanReport_short_FINAL_lowres.pdf

For the condensed version, I got my info from page 5 called "Control of Disputed Territories and Allegations of Kurdification"
on page 8 condensed version -> "Appropriation of Christian Land"

"Christian citizens of the KRI have issued complaints and
held protests against Kurdish residents for attacking and
seizing their land and villages in the provinces of Dohuk
and Erbil. Some Assyrian Christians accuse Kurdish gov-
ernment and party officials of taking lands for personal
use or financial gain. These Christians believe they
are specifically targeted as part of a policy to Kurdify
historically Christian areas. Other Christian leaders do
not believe a policy exists, but do concede that individual
Kurds and Kurdish businesses have been known to build
on or take Christian land.

Effectively, two types of land appropriation exist.
Significant portions of the claims are long-standing land
ownership issues. Through the late 20th century, Assyri-
ans were caught up in various regional uprisings and sup-
pressions. As a result of these events, large portions of the
population fled their homes and land, for which they con-
tinued to hold the deeds. Over time, Kurds moved in to the
fallow land. Now Christians are returning with their deeds
and attempting to reclaim lands or be compensated
.
In addition to these long-standing claims are
alleged incidents where powerful local officials or
businesses seize land on which to build new properties.
Assyrian leaders alluded to various cases where Kurd-
ish officials, or individuals or developers with links
to officials, have built on land owned by Christians
.
Seizures in the Nahla Valley have received particular
attention; here, Christians allege 42 encroachments in
the villages in recent years."

I will read the material you posted , but one thing I do not understand why is it only Assyrian complaining about their land being taken from them  ? . Frankly I am very skeptical and i see such complain politically and socially motivated . There is independent judicial system that deals with this kind of dispute and it is just to a certain extend just like anywhere in the world .


I can address some of the issues regarding land disputes with certainty . because my family lost all of our lands too and our deeds are meaningless now . During Saddam era there was a law called (????? ??????? ???????) I'm not sure what the English version will be . The law states that if a farmer leave the farm land and move to the city he will lose the deed to the land .The land then is divided and given to other farmers for use .  I know from my personal experience because our land was given to other farmers within a year from moving from our village and we still can not get it back because it has been divided and subdivided within too many people that you do not know who to take to court.


I certainly do not doubt that those with power use the power to make gains from Kurds and non kurds , but that is the case everywhere in the world and Kurdistan is no exception . Justice always depend on how deep you pocket . Even here in Canada there is justice for the poor and justice for the rich and you know that very well .


Kurdify historically Christian areas ? I honestly do not understand this term and no Assyrian i talked to was able to explains how the kurdification of Assyrian is done . Assyrian areas are part of Kurdistan and sheltering it to prevent non Assyrian from moving to the area will never work . People including the Assyrian wants to make money and if a Kurd offer good money for a land owned by an Assyrian and the guy sold it why would the rest of Assyrian have a problem with that ? It is just business  . Many Assyrian buy properties or land from kurds too and you do not hear a beep from kurds .


I understand Assyrian history and I sympathize , but feeling you are being victimized at every corner  is not a good way to live or go forward .
 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
I will read the material you posted , but one thing I do not understand why is it only Assyrian complaining about their land being taken from them  ? . Frankly I am very skeptical and i see such complain politically and socially motivated . There is independent judicial system that deals with this kind of dispute and it is just to a certain extend just like anywhere in the world .


I can address some of the issues regarding land disputes with certainty . because my family lost all of our lands too and our deeds are meaningless now . During Saddam era there was a law called (????? ??????? ???????) I'm not sure what the English version will be . The law states that if a farmer leave the farm land and move to the city he will lose the deed to the land .The land then is divided and given to other farmers for use .  I know from my personal experience because our land was given to other farmers within a year from moving from our village and we still can not get it back because it has been divided and subdivided within too many people that you do not know who to take to court.


I certainly do not doubt that those with power use the power to make gains from Kurds and non kurds , but that is the case everywhere in the world and Kurdistan is no exception . Justice always depend on how deep you pocket . Even here in Canada there is justice for the poor and justice for the rich and you know that very well .


Kurdify historically Christian areas ? I honestly do not understand this term and no Assyrian i talked to was able to explains how the kurdification of Assyrian is done . Assyrian areas are part of Kurdistan and sheltering it to prevent non Assyrian from moving to the area will never work . People including the Assyrian wants to make money and if a Kurd offer good money for a land owned by an Assyrian and the guy sold it why would the rest of Assyrian have a problem with that ? It is just business  . Many Assyrian buy properties or land from kurds too and you do not hear a beep from kurds .


I understand Assyrian history and I sympathize , but feeling you are being victimized at every corner  is not a good way to live or go forward .
it's not just Assyrians, Armenians and Yezidis have been saying this as well. It's also in the report. I posted only Assyrian stuff because that's the point of this thread?

Also, "I certainly do not doubt that those with power use the power to make gains from Kurds and non kurds" - This is the kind of behavior that'll contribute to making Kurdistan a failed state. The last thing the Middle East and Assyrians need is another failed state. The fact that you're downplaying it as a trivial/minor issue is disturbing and shows you don't understand how behavior can affect the society as a whole. Now imagine all Assyrians left the KRG, what if the higher up Kurds did this to your family or relative?

If people in power believe they can do whatever they want with absolutely no consequences of such actions, then they'll do whatever with no regret at all, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It's this kind of behavior from leaders that leads to failed Muslim states of both past and present.

Personally, I'm still for a Kurds getting their own state regardless whether it's a failed one or not.

Secondly, you're talking about FARMLAND being automatically, by-law appropriated. What about non-farm land? Are we assuming all Assyrians that left from instability were living on farm land? Not all land in North is farm-able.

Also, it's clear that many Assyrians and even Kurds to an extent were leaving the North because of instability, it's extremely stupid that people can take their property considering that if they have the capability to leave, they certainly have the capability to come back when the area has become more stable.

Kurdification works similar to Arabization but, instead of Arabs, it's Kurds. Something likely learned from Saddam.
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
it's not just Assyrians, Armenians and Yezidis have been saying this as well. It's also in the report. I posted only Assyrian stuff because that's the point of this thread?
You keep saying that without providing a single evidence that kurds are taking over Assyrian land and homes . Look you do not expect me just to take your word at face value do you ? I mean seriously just because you think it does not make it a fact and now you are throwing the Yezidis and Armenians to the mix ? you think that validate your original point or you are just doing it to adds emotional value ?


mrzurnaci said:
Also, "I certainly do not doubt that those with power use the power to make gains from Kurds and non kurds" - This is the kind of behavior that'll contribute to making Kurdistan a failed state. The last thing the Middle East and Assyrians need is another failed state. The fact that you're downplaying it as a trivial/minor issue is disturbing and shows you don't understand how behavior can affect the society as a whole. Now imagine all Assyrians left the KRG, what if the higher up Kurds did this to your family or relative?

If people in power believe they can do whatever they want with absolutely no consequences of such actions, then they'll do whatever with no regret at all, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It's this kind of behavior from leaders that leads to failed Muslim states of both past and present.

Personally, I'm still for a Kurds getting their own state regardless whether it's a failed one or not.
My dear Mr.Zurnaci you are an idealist and if you think the exploitation of poor by the rich will stop then I will strongly advice you to move to another planet . It is happening everywhere in the world including the west in the ugliest  form . I'm not trivializing the matter , but we should not exaggerate too .
You as an assyrian and Me as a Kurd we are just pawns in the game and at the end of the day I promise you we will get nothing . The rich Assyrian and those in the leadership will get richer and continue to fill the head of youth with non sense to empower themselves and no one else . On the surface they claim to care about assyrian , but behiend the close doors they are in bed with rich kurds and rich arabs . The same apply for kurds too  and that is why I despise leaders who claim to be nationalists .

The question I ask myself as a kurd is would I be better in Iraq or In Kurdistan ? and the answer is clear , because there is hope for change in Kurdistan  . Iraq is peddling backward and it is a dangerous place to live in  . So yes Kurdistan is not perfect with lots of problems , but it is heaven in compare to Iraq for those who are not holding another citizenship .

mrzurnaci said:
Secondly, you're talking about FARMLAND being automatically, by-law appropriated. What about non-farm land? Are we assuming all Assyrians that left from instability were living on farm land? Not all land in North is farm-able.
I'm not sure what you are referring too when you talk about non farm land . Did a Kurd came to an Assyrian village and took over their house :) after they left ? . I'm sorry , but this sounds funny and it could not be further from truth and such thing does not exist in Kurdistan .
During Saddam era he confiscated Kurdish homes and expelled Kurds from Kirkuk and we still can not get our homes back . What are we suppose to do ? go and kill arabs and force them out of our homes ? You see Iraq is a mess and it is a mess for everyone not just assyrian , but the trend seems to be that Kurds are living like kings . There are problems in Kurdistan left by previous regime and the new regime in Baghdad refused to even deal with it and it will take another 100 years to sort things out . 

mrzurnaci said:
Also, it's clear that many Assyrians and even Kurds to an extent were leaving the North because of instability, it's extremely stupid that people can take their property considering that if they have the capability to leave, they certainly have the capability to come back when the area has become more stable.
People did not take their properties . Iraq was a socialist country and farm land was considered government property and you own it as long as you farm it  . The law did not apply to home ownership .

mrzurnaci said:
Kurdification works similar to Arabization but, instead of Arabs, it's Kurds. Something likely learned from Saddam.
No it does not and it is not even remotely apply to Assyrian case and i will explain why .

1-how many Assyrian have been deported from Kurdistan and thrown into a desert and their homes and land confiscated by kurds ? Zero
2-How many assyrian are forced to register as kurd and not Assyrian ? Zero
3-Did anyone ever knock on your door to tell you kurd and not Assyrian and if you ever speak Assyrian again they will cut your tongue ? no right ?
4 . How many Assyrian village were razed to the ground to built housing projects for kurds ? zero .
5-How many Assyrian schools are closed by Kurds ? zero

Do not compare Arabisation to so called Kurdification that does not exist . It is easy to throw big words here and there to make some political gains , but it is far away from the truth . Assyrian are stigmatized people and they do not seem to be able to go forward as long as kurds are around . It is time to bury the hatchets and move on with life , because kurds are not going anywhere .

I would still love if you can explain how kurds are kurdifiying assyrian . Still waiting for an answer on that one .


 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
You keep saying that without providing a single evidence that kurds are taking over Assyrian land and homes . Look you do not expect me just to take your word at face value do you ? I mean seriously just because you think it does not make it a fact and now you are throwing the Yezidis and Armenians to the mix ? you think that validate your original point or you are just doing it to adds emotional value ?
The only evidence is anecdotal. I've read and heard stories of Assyrians, Iraqi Armenians, and other Kurds mentioning how either their land or property was taken from them...

Don't believe them if you don't want but if this wasn't true, this wouldn't be a huge issue that's considered a major rift between Kurds and Assyrians now would it?

nejepnerast said:
My dear Mr.Zurnaci you are an idealist and if you think the exploitation of poor by the rich will stop then I will strongly advice you to move to another planet . It is happening everywhere in the world including the west in the ugliest  form . I'm not trivializing the matter , but we should not exaggerate too .
You as an assyrian and Me as a Kurd we are just pawns in the game and at the end of the day I promise you we will get nothing . The rich Assyrian and those in the leadership will get richer and continue to fill the head of youth with non sense to empower themselves and no one else . On the surface they claim to care about assyrian , but behiend the close doors they are in bed with rich kurds and rich arabs . The same apply for kurds too  and that is why I despise leaders who claim to be nationalists.
Whatever you learned in Canada!

nejepnerast said:
The question I ask myself as a kurd is would I be better in Iraq or In Kurdistan ? and the answer is clear , because there is hope for change in Kurdistan  . Iraq is peddling backward and it is a dangerous place to live in  . So yes Kurdistan is not perfect with lots of problems , but it is heaven in compare to Iraq for those who are not holding another citizenship .
Missing the point but whatever.

nejepnerast said:
I'm not sure what you are referring too when you talk about non farm land . Did a Kurd came to an Assyrian village and took over their house :) after they left ? . I'm sorry , but this sounds funny and it could not be further from truth and such thing does not exist in Kurdistan .
During Saddam era he confiscated Kurdish homes and expelled Kurds from Kirkuk and we still can not get our homes back . What are we suppose to do ? go and kill arabs and force them out of our homes ? You see Iraq is a mess and it is a mess for everyone not just assyrian , but the trend seems to be that Kurds are living like kings . There are problems in Kurdistan left by previous regime and the new regime in Baghdad refused to even deal with it and it will take another 100 years to sort things out .
You just love using the false equivalence and putting words in people's mouths don't you? The article I linked clearly says Kurds are BUILDING ON LAND THAT'S OWNED BY ASSYRIANS WITHOUT PERMISSION. Maybe if you actually READ IT, you wouldn't look ignorant right now. I never said Kurds were taking over houses...
You argue like a Canadian liberal and most of them are dumb or ignorant on purpose.

nejepnerast said:
No it does not and it is not even remotely apply to Assyrian case and i will explain why .

1-how many Assyrian have been deported from Kurdistan and thrown into a desert and their homes and land confiscated by kurds ? Zero
2-How many assyrian are forced to register as kurd and not Assyrian ? Zero
3-Did anyone ever knock on your door to tell you kurd and not Assyrian and if you ever speak Assyrian again they will cut your tongue ? no right ?
4 . How many Assyrian village were razed to the ground to built housing projects for kurds ? zero .
5-How many Assyrian schools are closed by Kurds ? zero

Do not compare Arabisation to so called Kurdification that does not exist . It is easy to throw big words here and there to make some political gains , but it is far away from the truth . Assyrian are stigmatized people and they do not seem to be able to go forward as long as kurds are around . It is time to bury the hatchets and move on with life , because kurds are not going anywhere .

I would still love if you can explain how kurds are kurdifiying assyrian . Still waiting for an answer on that one .
Very very dumb statement you wrote. Not only a false equivalence but Kurdification is the process of changing an areas demographics from non-Kurdish to Kurdish.. There's different tactics to achieve the desired effect. What you're doing here is comparing what Saddam did to what Kurds are doing and you're somehow (idiotically) equating them.


#1 How about Barzani and Zebari gangs using Peshmerga to threaten Assyrian villages?
#2 is that why Barzani and other Kurds insult me and other Assyrians by saying that we're "nothing but christian kurds?" when genetics and language clearly demonstrate falsity?
#3 Yes, the Peshmerga has been used in doing that. Peshmerga is a party militia, not a military that's controlled solely by government.
#4 is actually false, I even have video proof that you'll probably just brush off but here you go.
! No longer available
#5 schools being closed isn't part of the definition of arabization or kurdification.

Your Canadian Liberal argument tactics will not work here because I'm not just an Assyrian, I'm also an American conservative living in a liberal city. I argue and fight with liberals similar to you who use liberal arguments and debate tactics just like what you've done.
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
The only evidence is anecdotal. I've read and heard stories of Assyrians, Iraqi Armenians, and other Kurds mentioning how either their land or property was taken from them...

Don't believe them if you don't want but if this wasn't true, this wouldn't be a huge issue that's considered a major rift between Kurds and Assyrians now would it?
Whatever you learned in Canada!
You said it not me , the evidence is anecdotal .

anecdotal: (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.



mrzurnaci said:
You just love using the false equivalence and putting words in people's mouths don't you? The article I linked clearly says Kurds are BUILDING ON LAND THAT'S OWNED BY ASSYRIANS WITHOUT PERMISSION. Maybe if you actually READ IT, you wouldn't look ignorant right now. I never said Kurds were taking over houses...
You argue like a Canadian liberal and most of them are dumb or ignorant on purpose.
My dear Mrzurnaci ,  The lands are either farmland , public land or residential land and in all cases you could not provide a single evidence that what you claim is happening . I do not know what to tell you here . As you said yourself the long long article about religious freedom in Kurdistan was written by Assyrian for Assyrian and frankly it does not holds no factual evidence to anything .


mrzurnaci said:
Very very dumb statement you wrote. Not only a false equivalence but Kurdification is the process of changing an areas demographics from non-Kurdish to Kurdish.. There's different tactics to achieve the desired effect. What you're doing here is comparing what Saddam did to what Kurds are doing and you're somehow (idiotically) equating them.
I know what the definition mean and the above does not tell me anything . It is just another anecdotal statement .


mrzurnaci said:
#1 How about Barzani and Zebari gangs using Peshmerga to threaten Assyrian villages?
an?ec?do?tal statement . Show me .

mrzurnaci said:
#2 is that why Barzani and other Kurds insult me and other Assyrians by saying that we're "nothing but christian kurds?" when genetics and language clearly demonstrate falsity?
That is kurdification lol ? Your feeling is hurt now , Ok Call them gypsies and you are even .

mrzurnaci said:
#3 Yes, the Peshmerga has been used in doing that. Peshmerga is a party militia, not a military that's controlled solely by government.
Is that kurdiication too ? So you are not happy with military structure in Kurdistan . me too .

mrzurnaci said:
#4 is actually false, I even have video proof that you'll probably just brush off but here you go.

Ok , so the land that belong to ministry of tourism was sold to a private investor and some land that belong to Rabi ismail was sold to haji masud . Where is the problem ? I'm not brushing it off , but i do not see where the problem is .

mrzurnaci said:
#5 schools being closed isn't part of the definition of arabization or kurdification.
Kurdish schools being closed and all the curriculum changed from kurdish to arabic is not part of arabisation ?

mrzurnaci said:
Your Canadian Liberal argument tactics will not work here because I'm not just an Assyrian, I'm also an American conservative living in a liberal city. I argue and fight with liberals similar to you who use liberal arguments and debate tactics just like what you've done.
I honestly do not know the difference between liberal and conservitive lol . I simply state the facts .
 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
Kurdish schools being closed and all the curriculum changed from kurdish to arabic is not part of arabisation ?
Arabization...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arabize#English

To make Arab; to give Arab traits to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization

"Arabization or Arabisation (Arabic: ??????? ta?r?b) describes either the conquest of a non-Arab area and growing Arab influence on non-Arab populations, causing their gradual adoption of the Arabic language and/or their incorporation of Arab culture and Arab identity."

closing down Assyrian and Kurdish schools, deporting and forcefully migrating, and all the other fun dictator stuff is not Arabization, it's an implementation of it. The actions to achieve a desired effect.

cmon man. Did I really have to spell this all out?

Anyways, we're getting off topic so I'm going to restate that I'm in favor for Kurdish sovereignty but I'm still neutral. I don't get involved in what's not my business.
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
Arabization...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arabize#English

To make Arab; to give Arab traits to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization

"Arabization or Arabisation (Arabic: ??????? ta?r?b) describes either the conquest of a non-Arab area and growing Arab influence on non-Arab populations, causing their gradual adoption of the Arabic language and/or their incorporation of Arab culture and Arab identity."

closing down Assyrian and Kurdish schools, deporting and forcefully migrating, and all the other fun dictator stuff is not Arabization, it's an implementation of it. The actions to achieve a desired effect.

cmon man. Did I really have to spell this all out?
lol , you raise multiple issues and failed to prove a single point and now you throw wiki definition and run ?is that how you defend the Assyrian cause ? I was hoping you would do a better job , but i was wrong. You are like the rest of Assyrian who are just through dirt at kurds and hoping something would stick .


 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
lol , you raise multiple issues and failed to prove a single point and now you throw wiki definition and run ?is that how you defend the Assyrian cause ? I was hoping you would do a better job , but i was wrong. You are like the rest of Assyrian who are just through dirt at kurds and hoping something would stick .
I have better things to do than to needlessly argue with a Canadian Kurd. It's not as if convincing you would do anything for the Assyrian cause anyway
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
I have better things to do than to needlessly argue with a Canadian Kurd. It's not as if convincing you would do anything for the Assyrian cause anyway
Yet you spend countless hours responding to my post! and off cours it will do good for Assyrian . This is a forum and it is read by thousands of Assyrian and non Assyrian . You running a way is never a good thing .

 

mrzurnaci

New member
Like I said on the other post. I will support an independent Kurdistan but which one? :)

The international community is expecting one and only one Kurdistan to exist, not 2,3,4, or 6.

Islam has already gotten you this far, so don't screw it up
 

mrzurnaci

New member
Ezidi Kurd said:
Great Kurdistan. It doesn't matter where it will be independent first, even on the MOON. At the end of the day all parts of Kurdistan will join together.

Not sure which part will become independent first, maybe Rojava will be independent first or maybe Ezdixan (Shengal), but eventually all parts will join together. I'm sure that Rojava and Ezdixan will be together, because Rojava Kurds from Qamishli and Ezdi Kurds from Shengal/Shexan (Ezdixan) belong tot the same type Kurmanji Kurds. Related Kurmanji tribes.
impossible, each independent piece of Kurdistan would take a great and devastating civil war to forcefully unite it as one country. That's not even mentioning if Turkey or Iran even gets involved in stopping it by making sure each civil war ends in stalemate.

Why? Because Turkey will influence and back the Kurds in charge of Turkish Kurdistan, same with Iran, same with Iraq, same with Syria...

Unless Kurds de-Islamize, the tribalistic and corruptive nature of Islam will prevent any fully united Kurdistan from happening.

Then again, what did you expect when your mostly follow a religion made up by a cross-dressing bandit who plagiarized the bible and added his own bad ideas?
 

nejepnerast

New member
mrzurnaci said:
Like I said on the other post. I will support an independent Kurdistan but which one? :)

The international community is expecting one and only one Kurdistan to exist, not 2,3,4, or 6.

Islam has already gotten you this far, so don't screw it up
I thought the question was specific enough . "for or against Kurdish referendum in Iraq" . As for intentional community frankly they do not have a choice but to negotiate with kurds which is a step forward  considering that just 20 years ago kurdish leaders were lucky to have a journalist make an interview with them and now Barzani is meeting the head of states in Erbil  . The total liberation of all parts of Kurdistan will happen in the far future for obvious reason . Kurds have the will are not afraid of anybody including iran , turkey , iraq whom they fought simultaneously for decades . The war against the kurds is unwinnable and they are all beginning to reach this realization .

Frankly at this stage of kurdish struggle no country have the stomach to fight them including iraq , iran and even turkey . Their leaders did a fantastic job shifting the public opinion gaining international public support . The road to complete liberation is still long and as long as they keep the mullas and fanaticism out of kurdistan they will reach their goals .


 

mrzurnaci

New member
nejepnerast said:
I thought the question was specific enough . "for or against Kurdish referendum in Iraq" . As for intentional community frankly they do not have a choice but to negotiate with kurds which is a step forward  considering that just 20 years ago kurdish leaders were lucky to have a journalist make an interview with them and now Barzani is meeting the head of states in Erbil  . The total liberation of all parts of Kurdistan will happen in the far future for obvious reason . Kurds have the will are not afraid of anybody including iran , turkey , iraq whom they fought simultaneously for decades . The war against the kurds is unwinnable and they are all beginning to reach this realization .

Frankly at this stage of kurdish struggle no country have the stomach to fight them including iraq , iran and even turkey . Their leaders did a fantastic job shifting the public opinion gaining international public support . The road to complete liberation is still long and as long as they keep the mullas and fanaticism out of kurdistan they will reach their goals .
at least the kurdistan off iraq would make a great deportation destination for Kurds living in Turkey. Don't think the Turkish government won't do that either...

"Frankly at this stage of kurdish struggle no country have the stomach to fight them including iraq , iran and even turkey".
Kind of an ignorant statement, what would Iraq, Iran, or Turkey gain from fighting Kurds other than to maintain borders?
War is EXPENSIVE, it's a stupid idea to go to war unless you're going to get something out of it. USA goes to war to protect its interests that keep it as the worlds most powerful nation.

Hell, the war against ISIS has already drained alot of the KRGs money itself if you haven't noticed already. you gotta pay for soldiers OR are you telling me young kurdish men completely risked their life for no reward or pay? I doubt that considering Middle Eastern mentality would make them money hungry.

"The road to complete liberation is still long"
There is no road, it'd be impossible for "complete" liberation.

You seriously believe that the Middle East, let alone the rest of the world, would allow for a complete Kurdistan? There's a good reason why the Arab states are broken up and one reason is to keep them weak. Secondly, you can't always keep the mullahs and religious fanatics, they're like cancer. They'll grow as they only need a moment of weakness... This wouldn't be an issue though if you de-Islamized the KRG however... But as soon as you de-Islamize, the Middle East will grow colder to your "kuffar" nation.

My dad always says that all Assyrians (and other Christians) should leave the Middle East so there's nobody in between for Muslims to kill each other.

Assyrians like me can always return back when it's actually safe. It seems like it'd be easier for me to make an autonomous Assyrian state in Europe or even the USA.
Sucks we have to leave the homeland we were born from but the land will always be there.

beige area was Assyrian population in 1000 AD, green is now
 
Top