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Accept a kurdish country

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
I agree with everything you said about Islam , but I draw no distinction between fanatic muslim and a fanatic christian . They are exactly the same .
No they're not. Fanatic Christians don't even have terrorist organizations. If you're a truth lover, you should know this.

The worst of their kind is the Westboro Baptist Church, and they still haven't killed anybody.
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
No they're not. Fanatic Christians don't even have terrorist organizations. If you're a truth lover, you should know this.

The worst of their kind is the Westboro Baptist Church, and they still haven't killed anybody.

Modern day peace has nothing to do with Christianity and only Separation of Church and the state brought peace to the western world . Read here about what Christians used to do .
http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html

 

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
Modern day peace has nothing to do with Christianity and only Separation of Church and the state brought peace to the western world . Read here about what Christians used to do .
http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html
Who's talking about modern day peace? I know that the values of the western world today are based on secularism.

Islam is still a lot more worse than Christianity. There are Islamic terrorist incidents happening everyday. Last time I checked, this is rare in the Christian world. Modern day Islam is like Christianity in the dark ages (and I'm aware of the crusades, KKK and the Inquisition - although the latter is more political and ethnic than full blown religious anyway). Christianity is not violent today. And this is a fact. You're an apologist to Islam if you brazenly claim that "Islam and Christianity are equally". That's just a liberal, leftist BS. If you abide to the truth, you'll debunk that sentiment.

Compare the predominant Christian countries (Iceland, Malta) to the most Islamic (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia). That's telling enough. And it is a proof that you're more better off in a Christian dominant country.

Equating the violence of Islam with the violence of Christianity is like comparing lightning deaths with car crash deaths. We both know which is more common.
 

Cascade

Active member
Oh, if you think that I'm a Christian apologist, I am not. I have spoken against that religion here where I've been accused of being an anti-Christian. I even made this thread, which solely criticizes the bible, and argued with people who defended it:

http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=47320.msg911281#msg911281

I'm not a fan of Christianity. But I am a fan of the truth. Islam will never be in Christianity's league. There are facts and statistics to support that. Out of all people, you should know better.
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
Who's talking about modern day peace? I know that the values of the western world today are based on secularism.

No i was referring to his comment about fanatic christian not having terrorist organisation . Well certainly they do not , because the church no longer holds the power over the states . Go back in the history where the church had a say and you will notice that they were no different than modern day Islamist . 

Neon said:
Islam is still a lot more worse than Christianity.
So we agree both are bad :) ? Good enough for me .

Neon said:
There are Islamic terrorist incidents happening everyday. Last time I checked, this is rare in the Christian world. Modern day Islam is like Christianity in the dark ages (and I'm aware of the crusades, KKK and the Inquisition - although the latter is more political and ethnic than full blown religious anyway).

Modern Islam is exactly as you describe it "Christianity in the dark ages" , but tell me why Christianity in the Dark ages were like Muslims today ? Did Christianity and the holy book change ? No certainly not , but church simply lost power and people got tired of non sense from burning the witches , the public beheading and so on . 

Neon said:
You're an apologist to Islam if you brazenly claim that "Islam and Christianity are equally". That's just a liberal, leftist BS. If you abide to the truth, you'll debunk that sentiment.
I'm an theist , so i do not know how could I be an apologist to islam  :) .

We can debate all day which one is worst , but i will take your word for it and I mean it , both are bad , but Islam is worst .

Neon said:
Compare the predominant Christian countries (Iceland, Malta) to the most Islamic (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia). That's telling enough. And it is a proof that you're more better off in a Christian dominant country.

Are you telling me that Christianity is the reason for the peace in the countries mentioned ? The difference between Pakistan and Malta is that the first is ruled by a law that is 1500 years old and the latter is rule by modern laws that has nothing to do with any religion .

Neon said:
Equating the violence of Islam with the violence of Christianity is like comparing lightning deaths with car crash deaths. We both know which is more common.

I will tell you what , I will start counting the number of people who got killed , enslaved or displaced in the name of Islam and you start counting the number of people who got killed , enslaved or displaced in the name of Christianity . I'm sure we will come up with a hug number which proves my original point . Both are bad   


 

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
No i was referring to his comment about fanatic christian not having terrorist organisation . Well certainly they do not , because the church no longer holds the power over the states . Go back in the history where the church had a say and you will notice that they were no different than modern day Islamist . 
That's why I said that Christianity was horrible 600 years ago. By the by, the church has power in the Vatican. I don't hear of executions there.

So we agree both are bad :) ? Good enough for me . 
Islam is still worse, as a religion. Compare the pedophilic warlord and some hippie preacher who got crucified. One promoted violence and the other was all about love. Why am I explaining this?

Modern Islam is exactly as you describe it "Christianity in the dark ages" , but tell me why Christianity in the Dark ages were like Muslims today ? Did Christianity and the holy book change ? No certainly not , but church simply lost power and people got tired of non sense from burning the witches , the public beheading and so on . 
Because Christians can always interpret Jesus's message of love and peace. Look at the Amish for instance. The holy book, especially the Old Testament, was grotesque. But at least they had Jesus who moderated the overall "harshness" of the bible. Whereas, with the Quran, it was all about Muhammad conquering and killing. It was straightforward. There is no interpretation.

I'm an theist , so i do not know how could I be an apologist to islam  :) .
I hope so. But you did sound like one. Even Alan (another Kurd here) has made comments similar to yours. It seems like Kurds and Turks (Cenk Uygur) usually hold tight to Islam even after they leave it. Arabs don't, because they know hostile their ex religion was after living among their radicals.

We can debate all day which one is worst , but i will take your word for it and I mean it , both are bad , but Islam is worst .
Christianity may not be a good religion. But if you're excluding the Old Testament/Torah (the horrible part) and regard Jesus's teachings, it isn't even that bad. The Jewish books are the savage parts, and I would wish more Christians just reject those books. Even Jews don't take them seriously. So it depends on what part of Christianity you're looking at.

Are you telling me that Christianity is the reason for the peace in the countries mentioned ? The difference between Pakistan and Malta is that the first is ruled by a law that is 1500 years old and the latter is rule by modern laws that has nothing to do with any religion .
Yes. Secularism included of course. Some Christians are actually decent enough to follow Jesus's teachings of love and acceptance. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are dangerous societies because of Islam. Why are you oblivious to this? Yes, it has to do with religion. You're being biased now, because when Islam is at fault, you disregard religion, but when Christianity does something bad you quickly blame Christianity. Stop tip-toeing. Face the facts.

I will tell you what , I will start counting the number of people who got killed , enslaved or displaced in the name of Islam and you start counting the number of people who got killed , enslaved or displaced in the name of Christianity . I'm sure we will come up with a hug number which proves my original point . Both are bad.
Car accidents and lightning deaths are both really bad. Doesn't mean one is as frequent as the other. History shouldn't always count. I'm talking about modern day world, and Islam is definitely still taking the cake (admit it, stop defending your religion). If you want to take history in account, then Australia, UK and the US are horrible countries for what they done in the past. Heck, Assyrians too, because our ancient empire was brutal. Now should you say Assyrians are bad now?

nejepnerast said:
It never crossed my mind and nothing wrong with defending a believe .

It was because of Christianity we Assyrians became rather nonbelligerent people, so of course I can "defend" it (although I'm just telling the truth). Compare us to our Muslim neighbours (including Kurds) and see how nonviolent we are in contrast. We don't do honor killings or kill apostates, unlike them. Christianity is nonsensical and it has its fair share of malice (such as the belief in hell), but it's NOT on the same boat of Islam. It just isn't. You have to admit that.
 

Cascade

Active member
Ezidi Kurd said:
2. Some Sumerian 'farmers' migrated to the south. They mixed with the Semitic race and became Semites themselves. later those people were once again replaced by another Semitic race people from the Arabia. There is nothing Sumerian among those Semitic people.
Why are you still insisting on believing in the Semitic race? You're still amazingly falling for Jewish myths, aren't you? There is no such thing as it. It's not even listed as one of the human subraces. There is Arabid, Iranid, Atlantid, but no Semitic. Why? Because it doesn't exist! No anthropologist ever took it seriously, well not unless if he was a Jew or a Christian. It's a very religious race.

But there you go anyway. You admit Sumerians gave rise to us "Semites" too. If there is nothing Sumerian about us, then there is NOTHING Sumerian about Iranians too. You know very well that so much mixing has happened since then. Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.
Ezidi Kurd said:
LMAO!!!What has Hitler to do with this? How old are you at the first place?



LESSON number 1. Germans were highly influence by the Iranian (Zoroastrian) People.


Friedrich Nietzsche wrote a book called:

Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None (German: Also sprach Zarathustra: Ein Buch f?r Alle und Keinen, also translated as Thus Spake Zarathustra)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra


German writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was inspired by the Persian poet Hafez and wrote:

West??stlicher Divan (West?Eastern Diwan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West%E2%80%93%C3%B6stlicher_Divan


etc.



Not to be proud of but this is how it really was. Nazi Germans saw Iran as land of the ARYANS. Germans during the Nazi era were f*cking thieves. They stole many things from the Aryans. REAL Aryans were their big daddies. Hitler was in love with the Persians/Iranians and Persian/Iranian culture.

Hitler and his gang considered the Persians as 'Aryans' and therefore Iranian were immune to the racial Nuremberg Laws : Iranians were immune to the racial Nuremberg Laws on the grounds that they were of Aryan Decent. According to those racial Nuremberg Laws Jews were of Semitic race who must be exterminated. So according to those Nuremberg Laws Semites and Iranian (Aryans) were NOT the same people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws


" The Shah went on to ask the international community to use the native name of "Iran" in 1935 to address to his country, which in Persian means 'Land of the Aryans' and refers to Airyanem Vaejah, the Avestan name of the original homeland of the Aryans. Although the country has been known as Iran to the native people themselves for many centuries, Westerners came to know the nation as Persia through Ancient Greek accounts. Iranians were immune to the racial Nuremberg Laws on the grounds that they were of Aryan Decent. In 1939, Nazi Germany provided Iran with what they called a Germany Scientific Library. The library contained over 7500 books selected "to convince Iranian readers ... of the kinship between the National Socialist Reich and the Aryan culture of Iran".[9] In various pro-Nazi publications, lectures, speeches, and ceremonies, parallels were drawn between the Shah of Iran and Hitler, and praise the charisma and virtue of the F?hrerprinzip.[10]

From 1939 to 1941 Iran's top foreign trade partner (nearly 50% of its total trade) was Germany, which helped Iran open modern sea and air communications with the rest of the world.[11]
In 1941, the Allies forced Reza Shah to abdicate the throne to his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. His pro-Nazi followers in the Iranian government such as Fazlollah Zahedi [12] and Mohammad Hosein Airom shared similar fates. The British believed that Zahedi was planning a general uprising in cooperation with German forces. He was arrested, where he was found with German weapons and correspondence from a German agent. He was interned in Palestine.
"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Iran_relations
What does Hitler have to do with this?..... And yet you're sitting here pontificating about him and his laws. Lol.

Semites and Iranians cluster really close, whether you like it or not. The Nazis aren't a good source here (love how you're fawning over them now). Either way, the Nazis hated people with dark hair and dark eyes. You people would've been killed too, despite your "Aryan culture". Btw, there are more white, Nordic looking Jews than white looking Iranians. Lmao.

Really now, get over yourself. You're a Middle Eastern. You're not a German or Aryan. You're of the so-called "brown race", like the Arabs and Afghans. Stop hating your Middle Eastern self. You'll always look like an Arab or be mistaken for one by your German masters. Stop being pathetic. For your own good. Just enough. Whether you're Aryan or not in the inside, your face would always pass for a Jew, Arab or any other Middle Eastern ethnic group. You need to relish this, bub. You are not superior. You're from the Iranian plateau. We're from the Levant. Same latitude. Same landscape. Close vicinity.
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
That's why I said that Christianity was horrible 600 years ago.
I have no clue where and how did you come up with this date , number and what historical fact it is based on . Does it mark a point in history where Christians decided not to be violent ?.
Come on Neon , you can do better than that and we should not be discussing these elementary stuff  . All I'm saying is that Christianity as a religion and as a whole (Do not pick and chose ) is as bloody as islam and the reason it is not anymore  because they lost power .

Neon said:
By the by, the church has power in the Vatican.
Personally i believe the religions in general was created when the first idiot met the first smart man . The smart man tried to convinced him that he has some connection with higher power and offered him protection in return for half of what he has . The idiot refused and it just happen that there was an earth quick or forest fire or flood the next day , So out of fear for the unknown and panic the idiot took half of his stuff and gave it to the smart man for protection . The word spread about this cool guy who can talk to the powerful one in the sky and people benevolently started giving their stuff to him , so he became the priest or the mulla that we know now and we remained the idiots that we were .

Religion is all about profit and economy since it's creation and the Vatican is the richest organization on the face of the earth . If peace makes them money then it is peace , but if it is war then it is war .Sorry for the long story :)   

Neon said:
Islam is still worse, as a religion. Compare the pedophilic warlord and some hippie preacher who got crucified. One promoted violence and the other was all about love. Why am I explaining this?

I do not know , but i think we agreed on that . Both are bad and islam is worst .

Neon said:
Because Christians can always interpret Jesus's message of love and peace. Look at the Amish for instance. The holy book, especially the Old Testament, was grotesque. But at least they had Jesus who moderated the overall "harshness" of the bible.

Let me ask you this just to avoid any confusion because i can not put my finger on what you are saying . Islam is a loud of crap and we agree on that , but do you think Christianity and it's biblical roots came from God ?

Neon said:
Whereas, with the Quran, it was all about Muhammad conquering and killing. It was straightforward. There is no interpretation.

Agreed and no discussion required .

Neon said:
I hope so. But you did sound like one. Even Alan (another Kurd here) has made comments similar to yours. It seems like Kurds and Turks (Cenk Uygur) usually hold tight to Islam even after they leave it. Arabs don't, because they know hostile their ex religion was after living among their radicals. .

I do not know how describing two religions (islam and Christianity ) as violence none sense believe system (in my view ) makes me more close to one than the other . I'm not hostile towards any religion , I view it analytically nothing more .

Neon said:
Christianity may not be a good religion. But if you're excluding the Old Testament/Torah (the horrible part) and regard Jesus's teachings, it isn't even that bad. The Jewish books are the savage parts, and I would wish more Christians just reject those books. Even Jews don't take them seriously. So it depends on what part of Christianity you're looking at.

You can not pick and chose , Muslims do that too . I have read both and both are violent .

Neon said:
Yes. Secularism included of course. Some Christians are actually decent enough to follow Jesus's teachings of love and acceptance.
You are avoiding the question . Are you telling me that Christianity is the reason for the peace in the countries mentioned ?

Neon said:
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are dangerous societies because of Islam. Why are you oblivious to this?
We agree on that 100% . My point is that you can not contribute peace in the west to Christianity . I hope it is clear now .

Neon said:
Yes, it has to do with religion.
So , You are telling me that the the Constitution is religious based ? That some how if we replace the constitution with religious laws people will still live in peace in the West ?
Neon said:
You're being biased now, because when Islam is at fault, you disregard religion, but when Christianity does something bad you quickly blame Christianity. Stop tip-toeing. Face the facts.

Never said anything remotely close to that nor did i even hinted to such a thing . Read my post .

Neon said:
Car accidents and lightning deaths are both really bad. Doesn't mean one is as frequent as the other.

I do not know how this comparison is even remotely similar , So I came up with 10 millions killed in the name of Islam and you came up with 5 millions killed in the name of Christianity . Ok , so they are both bad then.
Facts is Christians were slaughtering non Christians and Muslims were/still slaughtering non Muslims . Both bad , no good and both of their holy books gives those who slaughter others three cheers and a promise of heaven .


Neon said:
History shouldn't always count. I'm talking about modern day world, and Islam is definitely still taking the cake (admit it, stop defending your religion).
I honestly have no clue what you are saying or what you are accusing me of  :)

Neon said:
If you want to take history in account, then Australia, UK and the US are horrible countries for what they done in the past.
Are you telling me that Killing the natives and confiscating their land and children was a good thing ? It was a crime against humanity . Beside we are talking religions here and i do not know why you brought colonization and invasion into the subject .

Neon said:
Heck, Assyrians too, because our ancient empire was brutal. Now should you say Assyrians are bad now?

I have always said , we all should be ashamed of our ancestor's crimes . Again we talking religion here .

Neon said:
It was because of Christianity we Assyrians became rather nonbelligerent people, so of course I can "defend" it (although I'm just telling the truth). Compare us to our Muslim neighbours (including Kurds) and see how nonviolent we are in contrast. We don't do honor killings or kill apostates, unlike them. Christianity is nonsensical and it has its fair share of malice (such as the belief in hell), but it's NOT on the same boat of Islam. It just isn't. You have to admit that.
You are Whitewashing my friend .I hear exactly the same argument from Mulsims .

I will tell you what a typical Muslim will say to these empty words of yours .. ..here it is .

It was because of Islam we became rather nonbelligerent people, so of course I can "defend" it (although I'm just telling the truth). Compare us to our Christain neighbors and see how nonviolent we are in contrast. We don't  kill anyone unjustly or bomb anyone , drink alcohol or use drugs or allow promiscuous relations  .Islam came as a mercy to the world . unlike them. Islam is nonsensical and there is  nothing that could be interpreted as wrong , Yes we have terrorists , but they do not represent islam  . We are not on the same boat as the Christians .  There is just no comparison . You have to admit that.


 

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
I have no clue where and how did you come up with this date , number and what historical fact it is based on . Does it mark a point in history where Christians decided not to be violent ?.
Come on Neon , you can do better than that and we should not be discussing these elementary stuff  . All I'm saying is that Christianity as a religion and as a whole (Do not pick and chose ) is as bloody as islam and the reason it is not anymore  because they lost power .
Christianity is not as violent as Islam in today's world, in the 21st century. Back then we were all savages (Romans, Assyrians, Catholics, etc). Stop clinging on to your dear religion. Why do ex Muslims get irked when we flat out tell them that Christianity is still not in the same league of Islam? Because, today, that is the truth.

Not all religions are equally bad. And Christianity, as a doctrine, is still far more peaceful than Islamic teachings. Look at Jesus and Muhammad. Easy as that.

Personally i believe the religions in general was created when the first idiot met the first smart man . The smart man tried to convinced him that he has some connection with higher power and offered him protection in return for half of what he has . The idiot refused and it just happen that there was an earth quick or forest fire or flood the next day , So out of fear for the unknown and panic the idiot took half of his stuff and gave it to the smart man for protection . The word spread about this cool guy who can talk to the powerful one in the sky and people benevolently started giving their stuff to him , so he became the priest or the mulla that we know now and we remained the idiots that we were .
That's true. But what's your point?

Religion is all about profit and economy since it's creation and the Vatican is the richest organization on the face of the earth . If peace makes them money then it is peace , but if it is war then it is war .Sorry for the long story :) 
True again. The Vatican is a greedy, avaricious place. They care more about themselves than helping others. Even Jesus disliked rich people and idol worshipers. But, at the end of the day, they don't hang people in their courtyards, like what the peaceful Muslim country like Saudi Arabia does.  ;)

Let me ask you this just to avoid any confusion because i can not put my finger on what you are saying . Islam is a loud of crap and we agree on that , but do you think Christianity and it's biblical roots came from God ?
You do realize that I'm an atheist?

I do not know how describing two religions (islam and Christianity ) as violence none sense believe system (in my view ) makes me more close to one than the other . I'm not hostile towards any religion , I view it analytically nothing more .
Again, the main doctrine of Christianity, the part centered on Jesus, is not violent. Judaism is the more violent religion (Torah), despite Christians being the most violent people in the past. Be specific when you want to criticize Judaeo-Christianity, because they aren't the same religions. You only "view" it that way because you're an ex Muslim who still holds his religion dear. Sorry if that sounds blunt. You are being biased and you want to try so hard to "equalize" every religion and put them in the same boat, when they're NOT all the same.

You can not pick and chose , Muslims do that too . I have read both and both are violent .
This sounds like an excuse to defend Islam. Yes, the Torah is violent. The Old Testament is atrocious. Blame Judaism for that. But the main doctrine of Christianity, that is centred on Jesus, is NOT violent (well, unless if you count the crucifixion, which has nothing to do with a violent teaching). You are oblivious to Muhammad's teachings. Have you compared them to Jesus's philosophy? I think not.

You are avoiding the question . Are you telling me that Christianity is the reason for the peace in the countries mentioned ?
Christianity and secularism are both a reason. I would still cling on secularism though. But Christianity still has a more obtrusive message about love, acceptance and the likes (of course, if you disregard the vehement Torah books). It has a redeeming quality. This is something that Islam lacks generally. 

We agree on that 100% . My point is that you can not contribute peace in the west to Christianity . I hope it is clear now .
In today's world, you can. Look at Greece, Armenia and Malta. They're ultra Christian, but they're still peaceful. I'm sorry, but you're trying hard to degrade Christianity to Islam's level, when that just isn't the case. As violent as Christians were 600-800 years ago, you can still find redeeming qualities in the religion (Jesus teachings of peace). Unlike Islam. Christianity and Islam are NOT equally bad. One is a leg injury (that can be healed), and the other is lung cancer. I can will argue this all day.

So , You are telling me that the the Constitution is religious based ? That some how if we replace the constitution with religious laws people will still live in peace in the West ?
What does that have to do with anything? I believe in the separation of church and state. The thing with Islam, is that they allow their religion to rule their constitution. Their religion is so dominant that it has to interfere. Shows how powerful their religion is.

Now if I had to be ruled by a religious society, I would still choose Christianity over Islam. Also, if were governed solely by Jesus's laws (what the Amish do), I think we would've had a peaceful society. Christianity has only been violent because of the Old Testament god and how it was affiliated with Romans (violent people), who converted to Christianity. Because the original Christians in the Middle East were rather peaceful. Catholics made up a lot of crap as they went, anyway. Like, they had their own religion. I mean, when did Jesus taught us conquer and slay people?

I do not know how this comparison is even remotely similar , So I came up with 10 millions killed in the name of Islam and you came up with 5 millions killed in the name of Christianity . Ok , so they are both bad then.
Influenza has killed a lot of people too, just like cancer. Are you going to tell me that the flu is worse than cancer? ;)

And again, you're putting history in the highest regards. Back then, Assyrians, Romans (Italians), the Brits, Americans, etc, were all very violent. In fact, most of us were savages. And look at us now. STOP bringing up history as an excuse. Just realize that Christianity has been moderated today. Islam still hasn't in many parts of the Muslim world. 

Facts is Christians were slaughtering non Christians and Muslims were/still slaughtering non Muslims . Both bad , no good and both of their holy books gives those who slaughter others three cheers and a promise of heaven .
You're trying hard to falsely equate Christianity with Islam here. The fact is, Christians are not doing that today. Oh and please read the bible. Jesus told Christians to spread the message in peace. So what book are you reading? At least read something before you make a judgement out of it. No, the Old Testament doesn't count, as it isn't the main doctrine of Christianity.

Are you telling me that Killing the natives and confiscating their land and children was a good thing ? It was a crime against humanity . Beside we are talking religions here and i do not know why you brought colonization and invasion into the subject .
Of course, since you have nothing in return you bring up native Americans from 500 years ago. For your information, this was done in the name of colonialism, racism and nationalism. Religion wasn't the main factor. That's like me saying Saddam Hussein killed people in the name of Islam, when it was actually more about his Baathist party than anything.

I have always said , we all should be ashamed of our ancestor's crimes . Again we talking religion here .
And I should be ashamed of my ancestors, considering how barbaric was the Assyrian empire. But no we shouldn't. Being guilty isn't the way to go in life.  This will create division and more racism in modern day society.

You are Whitewashing my friend .I hear exactly the same argument from Mulsims .
What whitewashing? Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion. We were the first to convert. It sucks that Kurds and Arabs were turned into savages by Islam. I'd wager that Christianity would've Kurds and Arabs more secular and peaceful. Even Turks wouldn't have been turned into psychotic mass killers if it weren't for Islam.

You still hold on to your Kurdish Islamic values. This is why so many Kurds and Turks, who are ex Muslims, hate Christianity more so than Islam. Because they were brought up to do so. Ex-Muslim Arabs are the least stubborn and forgiving ones when it comes to Islam. Just to show us how moderate Arabs are in contrast to Kurds and Turks, who still are somehow attached to Islam despite leaving it. Please don't be that way.

I will tell you what a typical Muslim will say to these empty words of yours .. ..here it is .

It was because of Islam we became rather nonbelligerent people, so of course I can "defend" it (although I'm just telling the truth). Compare us to our Christain neighbors and see how nonviolent we are in contrast. We don't  kill anyone unjustly or bomb anyone , drink alcohol or use drugs or allow promiscuous relations  .Islam came as a mercy to the world . unlike them. Islam is nonsensical and there is  nothing that could be interpreted as wrong , Yes we have terrorists , but they do not represent islam  . We are not on the same boat as the Christians .  There is just no comparison . You have to admit that.
Except, terrorists represent Islam and Muhammad. Christian extremists do not represent Jesus. You connect Islamic extremist to Muhammad and his teachings, but you cannot connect an extremist Christian with Jesus. Now don't bring up the OT, since it's part of Judaism and not the central part of Christianity.

I'm sorry, but Islam will never be as loathsome as Christianity, despite how flawed the latter religion is and the how much violence has been perpetrated in its name. Christians have done atrocious things for sure in the past, but at the end of the day Jesus wouldn't have condone them. Except that Muhammad would totally condone ISIS. Ever thought of this too?
 

Cascade

Active member
Ezidi Kurd said:
Semites ARE a race.

Iranian and Semites (from the Arabian Peninsula or Levant) don't cluster close to each other at all. Iranian cluster closer to people from Caucasus first, then with people from the NORHTERN Mesopotamia.

Iranian belong to a VERY different race. IF you compare ancient Neolithic Zagros Aryan DNA with modern West Iranian (Aryan) DNA it is still very close.

Semites ARE a race, since ALL Semitic people share the common ancestors from NorthEastern Africa, Levant & Arabia.


You brought Hitler out of nowhere. Like Hitler didn't knew the Kurds or Persians. Like Kurds or Persians didn't exist 100 years ago, lol.


Brown, Yellow, Green or Blue, West Iranid people ars still 100% Aryan people. Proto-Sumerian proto-Aryan Ubaid people who came from the Zagros Mountains had also dark hair etc.


Kurds & Persians are Aryans not because of their colour of their skin, but because of their ANCESTORS, because of their culture, because of their language, because of their  URHEIMAT/homeland.

I'm an ARYAN because I'm a direct descendant of the MEDES. My DNA is very Iranid (West Iranian/Aryan). My language is an ARYAN language, my culture is an Aryan culture, my religion is an Aryan religion and my homeland was the homeland of the Medes. Medes were 100% Aryan people.

Semites and Iranian are not the same and don't belong to the same race, group etc. Both have different origin. Iranid race has nothing to do with the Levant, Arabia etc. Iranid People are 'mountain' people like proto-Sumerian Ubaid people came from the Zagros Mountains and who were one of the earliest Aryans.
Okay, okay, I get it. Lol. I never disagreed with you about Aryans, western Iranians and Zagros people being of the same "race". They are.

But I will always stand by my initial opinion stating that Sumerians gave rise to a lot of different peoples in the middle east. They are the common ancestors of us all, specifically those in modern day Iraq. Also, I don't think Semites are a "true" or pure race. At least not today, due to mixing. You even admitted that modern day Semites (like Assyrians) have been mixed to an extent. So you're right.

How come in my DNA test I was clustered closely with Georgians and Armenians (namely the Caucasus area)?
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
Of course, since you have nothing in return you bring up native Americans from 500 years ago.

You brought it up not me and portrayed it like it was nothing or no one's fault to justify atrocities committed in the name of religion  . Read your posts before replying .

Neon said:
For your information, this was done in the name of colonialism, racism and nationalism. Religion wasn't the main factor.

Never said that and you are lost in your own posts again. You mentioned the colonisation and validate it like it was nothing . Now you are telling me that i said it was for religious reason ? did not say that
By the way the religious schools that came with colonisation did a great job right  ? They committed such vulgar and inhuman crimes that even the pope recently apologized on behalf of Christianity . 

Neon said:
That's like me saying Saddam Hussein killed people in the name of Islam, when it was actually more about his Baathist party than anything.
again you are lost and I never said colonisation was related to Christianity . They did however commit unspeakable crimes towards the natives in the name of their superior God . Give me a break

Neon said:
And I should be ashamed of my ancestors, considering how barbaric was the Assyrian empire. But no we shouldn't. Being guilty isn't the way to go in life.  This will create division and more racism in modern day society.

Feeling guilty and being ashamed is two different things . I never said feel guilty did I ? But we all should be ashamed of the crime committed by our ancestors . Most people seem to be taking pride of how big their empire was and how they slaughtered their enemies  without a thought of death they brought to men women and children of the other nations .
Why are you surprised when turks do not apologize for crimes they committed against assyrians and Armenians ? if we use your logic they can claim exactly what you just claimed that their ancestors were savages and that is all . Tell me are you ashamed of what assyrian empire did to other nations and the crimes they committed ?

Neon said:
What whitewashing?

Seriously Neon ? whitewashing :  to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data

it has nothing to do with being white or black .

Neon said:
Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion. We were the first to convert. It sucks that Kurds and Arabs were turned into savages by Islam. I'd wager that Christianity would've Kurds and Arabs more secular and peaceful. Even Turks wouldn't have been turned into psychotic mass killers if it weren't for Islam.

Like I said they were all mass murders and no one was innocent Muslims and Christians .The victors claim pride and victory and portrayed their enemies exactly the way your portray the kurds , the arabs and the turks and the one lost claimed victimization as usual . 

Neon said:
You still hold on to your Kurdish Islamic values. This is why so many Kurds and Turks, who are ex Muslims, hate Christianity more so than Islam. Because they were brought up to do so. Ex-Muslim Arabs are the least stubborn and forgiving ones when it comes to Islam. Just to show us how moderate Arabs are in contrast to Kurds and Turks, who still are somehow attached to Islam despite leaving it. Please don't be that way.

It is not about me and throwing mud at me does not validate your argument .

Neon said:
Except, terrorists represent Islam and Muhammad. Christian extremists do not represent Jesus.

Does it make you feel better saying that :) .

Neon said:
You connect Islamic extremist to Muhammad and his teachings, but you cannot connect an extremist Christian with Jesus. Now don't bring up the OT, since it's part of Judaism and not the central part of Christianity.

again , you have no authority to pick and choose . When highest Christian authority does that the we can talk . I'm beginning to see how similar Christians and Muslims are .

Neon said:
I'm sorry, but Islam will never be as loathsome as Christianity, despite how flawed the latter religion is and the how much violence has been perpetrated in its name. Christians have done atrocious things for sure in the past, but at the end of the day Jesus wouldn't have condone them. Except that Muhammad would totally condone ISIS. Ever thought of this too?
Do you notice how contradictory your statement is :) . You are saying Christianity is terrible , but not as bad as Islam . Once again I agree It is a terrible religion perhaps not as terrible as Islam , but pretty close .
 

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
You brought it up not me and portrayed it like it was nothing or no one's fault to justify atrocities committed in the name of religion  . Read your posts before replying .
I did NOT bring up native Americans. You did, mate. And I told you, native Americans were killed in the name of colonialism, nationalism and racism. Religion was not the main ingredient. Just like Saddam Hussein (who is Muslim), when he killed people. It wasn't purely in the name of Islam. Get it?

Never said that and you are lost in your own posts again. You mentioned the colonisation and validate it like it was nothing . Now you are telling me that i said it was for religious reason ? did not say that
Why did you bring up native Americans and colonization when our subject was about religion? Who is "lost" now? Because you're backpedaling now, seriously. You bring things up and I'll enlighten you. Easy as that. If you nothing constructive to say, then don't tell me how to read my posts.

By the way the religious schools that came with colonisation did a great job right  ? They committed such vulgar and inhuman crimes that even the pope recently apologized on behalf of Christianity .
Yep, horrible and atrocious crimes done around 200-600 years that would've sickened Jesus to the stomach. Nobody is condoning that. Even Anglo Celtic Australians established harsh religious schools for Aboriginals. As one would expect, of course the victims would be taught about Christianity. If Indians colonized America they would've converted the natives to Hinduism. Again, why does history matter so much to you?

again you are lost and I never said colonisation was related to Christianity . They did however commit unspeakable crimes towards the natives in the name of their superior God . Give me a break
You just did now! Stop contradicting yourself! And again, wake up from the past. The problem today is your barbaric religion. Enough with your excuses. No matter how much you speak about Christianity in the dark ages, Islam will still not be the better religion.

Why are you surprised when turks do not apologize for crimes they committed against assyrians and Armenians ? if we use your logic they can claim exactly what you just claimed that their ancestors were savages and that is all . Tell me are you ashamed of what assyrian empire did to other nations and the crimes they committed ?
No, I am not. It happened 2000 years ago. Turks murdered us 100 years ago. Idiotic and insensitive of you to compare the two. But then again, you're a Kurd I guess. You've been taught to have this mindset. So I'm not surprised. Very sad though, cos I thought you were a reasonable person.

Seriously Neon ? whitewashing :  to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data
Whitewashing is also affiliated with race. Since everybody uses the term within that context nowadays, I guess I saw the meaning that way too. So pardon me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewashing_in_film

But of course, you're not being biased at all. You think Christianity and Islam are equally bad religions. Yep, totally no bias there. Lmao.

Like I said they were all mass murders and no one was innocent Muslims and Christians .The victors claim pride and victory and portrayed their enemies exactly the way your portray the kurds , the arabs and the turks and the one lost claimed victimization as usual .
And I can say that nobody is safe from shark attacks, rat poison, lightnings, a fall down the stairs, and pretty much every object, obstacle or thing in the world. Doesn't mean the biggest killers such as heart disease, cancer, influenza and car crashes are in the same boat of these.

Still trying so hard to put your dear religion in the same vicinity of modern day Christianity.

It is not about me and throwing mud at me does not validate your argument .
It is. You're a Kurd. The most stubborn and foul apologists of Islam are usually your people (Alan1 had similar views) and the Turks. If you were an Arab, I'm sure your views would be different. They know Islam more than you do. It's usually them who come out and speak critically about Islam and how dangerous Islam is. Ex Muslim Arabs don't come up with how atrocious Christianity was half a millennium ago. Why? Because it doesn't matter to this day and age. Do you see us talking about how brutal Romans, English, White Americans, Assyrians, etc, were? No. Because that will be ridiculous. They aren't hurting us today, and today we know that Islamic terrorism is affecting us. It's pathetic to always cry about the past and be oblivious about modern world problems. Honestly, you only "cry" about the past just to make Islam look more embellished. It fuels your agenda.

Does it make you feel better saying that :) .
If I murder someone and blame Jesus, you would think I'm stupid, considering his nonviolence teachings and what he stood for. But if I murder someone in the name of Muhammad, I'm sure you'd find a better connection here. Is this supposed to be brain surgery? Lol

And I'm sorry that one fictional character is somehow more nicer than the other. It's not my fault that they wrote them that way. ;)

again , you have no authority to pick and choose . When highest Christian authority does that the we can talk . I'm beginning to see how similar Christians and Muslims are .
What a feeble comeback. You're coming up with a baseless excuse to make Muhammad look better than Jesus (Lol "the authorities"), no? It's amazing how clingy you are to you dear religion and how you're trying desperately to placate it. Sorry bub, read the bible and the quran. Unless you're mentally challenged or have vision problems, you know very well which character is evil.

Do you notice how contradictory your statement is :) . You are saying Christianity is terrible , but not as bad as Islam . Once again I agree It is a terrible religion perhaps not as terrible as Islam , but pretty close .
Christianity is terrible in the past. But it isn't now. I think that was my critical point at the start of the discussion if you cannot remember. But if you want to cling history, then let's say that Assyrians, Aztecs, Romans, Germans, Brits, Americans, etc, are all horrible people too. Actually, everyone, since many of us were savages in the past. So be consistent, since you love history so much?

nejepnerast said:
Sorry Neon , it looks like my previous reply to you was deleted . Is there a reason , Moderator ?
Which one? I just replied to your recent post. The moderators have deserted these boards really. They're not doing anything at all nowadays, so I doubt they removed your post. And I doubt that you'd post anything offensive which warrants a deletion (the Proud_Arab guy posted the most vile thing about Assyrian and the moderator ignored it).

You probably didn't click post or you closed the page before posting? The issue could be on your part.
 

Cascade

Active member
Also, Ezedi Kurds, just start to look at facts. Those that cover modern Assyrians, not the ancient ones that are from 9000 years ago. It's ingenuous to go that far. Heck, go further, and we are Africans, as are you. Be reasonable and coherent here. Use diagrams for modern Assyrians. You can see here that we are clearly Mesopotamian.
 

Cascade

Active member
Ezidi Kurd said:
A plot from eurogenes? Eurogenes are a bunch of amateurs. There is nothing scientific about them.

That label "Mesopotamian" is just a name, just a label. Has nothing to do with the area. Assyrians plot together with the Iraqi/Iranian Jews. Are Jews native Mesopotamians? Iraqi/Iranian Jews are a mixture between the Semitic Levant people (original Jews) and the Iranid (Aryan) people. Same can be said about the Assyrians. Assyrians are VERY, VERY mixed people. They are mixed between Neolithic Levant farmers and the Neolithic Iranian Plateau farmers (Aryans). That's why they plot between the Levant/Arabia and the Iranian Plateau people.
So because you disagree with a source they're "amateurs"? How is that helping?

Yes, we are mixed. Everyone is mixed. And it's not like Levant and Iranian farmers are two distinct races. They're as different as Vietnamese and Chinese. Same races of people. Different backgrounds. You're confusing an ethnic group with race. And again, you're going back 9000+ years ago. Of course we'll come from different common ancestors and different places if you go that far. Doesn't make us a different racial group from our neighbours. But at the same time, this doesn't make us closely related. This seems to be black or white for you; "If you're related you're the same race, if you're not closely related you're of a different race." How is that consistent?

Mind you, Iranians and some Kurds tend to have South Asian in their genetic make-up. That's pretty mixed considering that South Asians are considered to be a different race (as they have Dravidian in them, who are dark brown) and they're from a completely different region (South Asia). Last time I checked Levantines and even Iranians don't differ much in skin colour and they're both Middle Eastern. And since Assyrians don't have non-Middle Eastern backgrounds (okay, maybe if you count Greek/Italian) then how are they "very mixed"? Are Vietnamese people "very mixed" since they have Chinese and probably a bit of Cambodian and Thai in them? You see, every ethnicity has neighboring mixing to an extent.

In short, stop confusing ethnic groups within close vicinity as different races. Heck, Spaniards and Greeks are considered to be of the same "Mediterranean" race and they're thousands of kilometers apart. But I'm sure there are Spanish or Greek purists who argue like you do and say "Greeks and Spaniards are distinct people of distinct race", when they're not.
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
I did NOT bring up native Americans. You did, mate.
You did bro do not denied it . Check your post . You brought in the Americas and Australia to the subject and portrayed it as whatever to whitewash the crime committed by Christianity in the past  .
Frankly I see no difference between a typical Muslim and you . He would claim moderation and even atheism like you , but the moment you touch their religion they are up in arm .

Neon said:
And I told you, native Americans were killed in the name of colonialism, nationalism and racism. Religion was not the main ingredient. Just like Saddam Hussein (who is Muslim), when he killed people. It wasn't purely in the name of Islam. Get it?

No one said otherwise and you need to calm down .But like I told you Christianity committed unspeakable crimes too against the native . Do not tell me it is ok and it is history . If that is the case and we should just bury the past then you should not be talking about Assyria , because it is just history .

Neon said:
Why did you bring up native Americans and colonization when our subject was about religion? Who is "lost" now? Because you're backpedaling now, seriously. You bring things up and I'll enlighten you. Easy as that. If you nothing constructive to say, then don't tell me how to read my posts.

lol , read the post above .

Neon said:
Yep, horrible and atrocious crimes done around 200-600 years that would've sickened Jesus to the stomach. Nobody is condoning that. Even Anglo Celtic Australians established harsh religious schools for Aboriginals. As one would expect, of course the victims would be taught about Christianity. If Indians colonized America they would've converted the natives to Hinduism. Again, why does history matter so much to you?

I get it you love Jesus and like I said I'm an atheist which means i'm against all religions , So Yes any other religion would have committed the same crimes Christianity committed against the natives . Do you get my point now ? Do you see how Christianity is no different than any other crapy religion ?

Neon said:
You just did now! Stop contradicting yourself! And again, wake up from the past. The problem today is your barbaric religion. Enough with your excuses. No matter how much you speak about Christianity in the dark ages, Islam will still not be the better religion.

You are offended like a typical Muslim when there is talk about mohamd or quran  .

Neon said:
No, I am not. It happened 2000 years ago. Turks murdered us 100 years ago. Idiotic and insensitive of you to compare the two. But then again, you're a Kurd I guess. You've been taught to have this mindset. So I'm not surprised. Very sad though, cos I thought you were a reasonable person.

You are just upset and you take things too personally .You should not get offended , it is just talk and exchange of views .
Logically , Saying it happened 2000 years ago should make it a lot easier to apologize for and admit it was absolutely wrong . Yes I'm a kurd and I'm ashamed of Kurdish participation in the crimes committed against Armenian and Assyrian 

Neon said:
Whitewashing is also affiliated with race. Since everybody uses the term within that context nowadays, I guess I saw the meaning that way too. So pardon me.

I was not certainly talking about a Film and i have no clue how would that have fit in the context of what we are discussing .

Neon said:
But of course, you're not being biased at all. You think Christianity and Islam are equally bad religions. Yep, totally no bias there. Lmao.


My dearest Neon , how is me saying they are both equally bad makes me bias towards one ? Do you even understand the word bias ?

Neon said:
And I can say that nobody is safe from shark attacks, rat poison, lightnings, a fall down the stairs, and pretty much every object, obstacle or thing in the world. Doesn't mean the biggest killers such as heart disease, cancer, influenza and car crashes are in the same boat of these. 

The point is they are all bad . Now you can lighten something based on your views or make it look horrible , but at the end of day they are all bad .

Neon said:
Still trying so hard to put your dear religion in the same vicinity of modern day Christianity.

You have absolutely convinced me with your logic . Christianity is the best .

Neon said:
It is. You're a Kurd. The most stubborn and foul apologists of Islam are usually your people (Alan1 had similar views) and the Turks. If you were an Arab, I'm sure your views would be different. They know Islam more than you do. It's usually them who come out and speak critically about Islam and how dangerous Islam is. Ex Muslim Arabs don't come up with how atrocious Christianity was half a millennium ago. Why?
I dare you to find one word that i wrote praising islam or validating the atrocities they committed .  I really do not get it how Saying Christianity is as bad  as Islam somehow make me pro islam or bias . Can you explain how that work ?

Neon said:
Because it doesn't matter to this day and age. Do you see us talking about how brutal Romans, English, White Americans, Assyrians, etc, were? No. Because that will be ridiculous. They aren't hurting us today,

The principles which empires were built on was fault and they are long gone , but the principles which religions were built on still exist  . That is the difference .

Neon said:
and today we know that Islamic terrorism is affecting us. It's pathetic to always cry about the past and be oblivious about modern world problems. Honestly, you only "cry" about the past just to make Islam look more embellished. It fuels your agenda.

They are as i said equally dangerous , One has power and one does not . You certainly do not want to get into the reason for separation of church and the state do you ?

Neon said:
If I murder someone and blame Jesus, you would think I'm stupid, considering his nonviolence teachings and what he stood for. But if I murder someone in the name of Muhammad, I'm sure you'd find a better connection here. Is this supposed to be brain surgery? Lol

surely not and i have no clue why would you even say something like that and somehow is it funny for you ?

Neon said:
And I'm sorry that one fictional character is somehow more nicer than the other. It's not my fault that they wrote them that way. ;)

Certainly , but fictional Characters are cool for children not adults , .

Neon said:
What a feeble comeback. You're coming up with a baseless excuse to make Muhammad look better than Jesus (Lol "the authorities"), no? It's amazing how clingy you are to you dear religion and how you're trying desperately to placate it. Sorry bub, read the bible and the quran. Unless you're mentally challenged or have vision problems, you know very well which character is evil.

Why why :) , You want to pick and choose what you want from Christianity and I'm telling you can not do that . It is a package deal .Millions of Christians would disagree with you and you are merely trying clean up what you believe is wrong with Christianity by cherry picking . it does not work like that my friend and do not even bother trying . Even Christians would disagree with you . 

Neon said:
Christianity is terrible in the past. But it isn't now. I think that was my critical point at the start of the discussion if you cannot remember. But if you want to cling history, then let's say that Assyrians, Aztecs, Romans, Germans, Brits, Americans, etc, are all horrible people too.

finally a glimmer of hope :) . I will tell you what is wrong with your argument and comparison . Germany for example was a state and the principles which the state was built on at the time are long gone and they even admit the apologize for the crimes they committed . The principles the religion were built on still exist and the crime are still validate it . One is built by man and the other supposedly came from God . Big difference .
 
Neon said:
Actually, everyone, since many of us were savages in the past. So be consistent, since you love history so much? .

I have replied to this comparison and explained why is it faulty in the above post .

Neon said:
Which one? I just replied to your recent post. The moderators have deserted these boards really. They're not doing anything at all nowadays, so I doubt they removed your post. And I doubt that you'd post anything offensive which warrants a deletion (the Proud_Arab guy posted the most vile thing about Assyrian and the moderator ignored it).
You probably didn't click post or you closed the page before posting? The issue could be on your part.
Never mind and i'm glad it was removed .Try to take it easy and know that i have nothing against you or anyone for that matter .People are free with their choices and believes . It is just a discussion that changes nothing nor should it bother anyone .
 

Cascade

Active member
nejepnerast said:
You did bro do not denied it . Check your post . You brought in the Americas and Australia to the subject and portrayed it as whatever to whitewash the crime committed by Christianity in the past. Frankly I see no difference between a typical Muslim and you . He would claim moderation and even atheism like you , but the moment you touch their religion they are up in arm .
And I see no difference between you and a Muslim. You're actually defending Islam in a way. Muslims do that too. Please don't be sly. You brought up the natives first. I just said Australia and UK should be bad too, considering their history. But you ignorantly threw that on religion. I told you that the natives were killed in the name of patriotism and racism. Religion wasn't the main priority. But conveniently, you ignore this because it goes against your narrative. Lol.

No one said otherwise and you need to calm down .But like I told you Christianity committed unspeakable crimes too against the native . Do not tell me it is ok and it is history . If that is the case and we should just bury the past then you should not be talking about Assyria , because it is just history .
The Europeans just happened to be Christian. Saddam committed horrible crimes against Arabs, Kurds and even Assyrians. He didn't do it in the name of Islam. He just happened to be a Muslim. Yes, some atrocities were done in the name of god, such as witch burning, forcible conversion, but most of the acts were in the name of racism (Eurocentrism) and nationalism.

What a horrible false equivalence about me ditching Assyria. I am Assyrian. It's my ethnicity. It won't be changed. It has nothing to do with religious violence in history. Your points and analogies are really feeble now. :giggle:

I get it you love Jesus and like I said I'm an atheist which means i'm against all religions , So Yes any other religion would have committed the same crimes Christianity committed against the natives . Do you get my point now ? Do you see how Christianity is no different than any other crapy religion ?
It is not. Christianity is not equally bad (nor good) as any other religions. Buddhism, Shintoism, Jainism and Confucianism are far more peaceful religions than Christianity. Islam is way at the bottom of the barrel. No offense, but you want all religions to be equally "crap" just so Islam won't appear that malicious in comparison (when it really is). You're an apologist to your native religion. Admit it. ;)

You are offended like a typical Muslim when there is talk about mohamd or quran  .
That's rich coming from someone who's been defending Islam and Muslims in the past dozen of posts. Please stop projecting - You're probably offended about what I said about Muhammad and Islam. Honestly man, you're one of the most risible Islamic apologist I've ever came across with. It's really sad, because I thought you were a smart person.

You are just upset and you take things too personally .You should not get offended , it is just talk and exchange of views .
Who said I'm upset and offended? That's your way of perceiving it. Don't let the way I type make an impression of how I feel.

Logically , Saying it happened 2000 years ago should make it a lot easier to apologize for and admit it was absolutely wrong . Yes I'm a kurd and I'm ashamed of Kurdish participation in the crimes committed against Armenian and Assyrian
People have apologized for their wrongdoings in the past. But it depends on how long ago it was. 2000 years ago is too much, whilst 100 years is relatively recent. Glad you feel pity for us.

I was not certainly talking about a Film and i have no clue how would that have fit in the context of what we are discussing .
Please don't be sly. You know perfectly what I meant. I used the term "whitewashing" within the racial context, thanks to social media of 2016. I thought you meant Assyrians are only Christian because they're "whitewashed" (they're "white-fied", since Christianity is associated with Europeans). But yes, I admit that I took you the wrong way. So let's drop this one.

My dearest Neon , how is me saying they are both equally bad makes me bias towards one ? Do you even understand the word bias ?
Look at Jesus and look at Muhammad. Look at modern Christian predominant countries and look at modern Islamic dominant countries. Look at how freer the former countries whilst the latter countries still implement shariah. Yep, both equally horrible religions (*sigh*). Why are you so obsessed with making Christianity as bad as Islam in today's world? So you can trivialize Islamic terrorism and shariah to fuel your agenda? You are ingenuous at best, honestly man.

The point is they are all bad . Now you can lighten something based on your views or make it look horrible , but at the end of day they are all bad .
All religions are not bad, let alone equally bad. How cynical do you have to be to say that Confucianism or Jainism are bad religions? I told you that Islam is horrible, and you agreed with this. Christianity is a mixture of good and bad (in which I implied this). Whilst the rest, they may have more good in them than bad, even though they're still utterly false. You can say all religions are equally fake, and that's true. But equally harmful and dangerous? Just no.

You have absolutely convinced me with your logic . Christianity is the best .
Christianity is certainly the "best" compared to Islam within the modern sense. Are you disheartened or guilty Christianity at least made Assyrians and Armenians more civilized and nonviolent compared to what Islam did to Kurds and Turks. Yeah, I'll kinda be envious too if my recent Islamic history was the more violent one.

I really do not get it how Saying Christianity is as bad  as Islam somehow make me pro islam or bias . Can you explain how that work ?
It does. That's what people part of this agenda do. They want Christianity to appear as bad as Islam just so the atrocities of Islam would appear "weaker" or trivial in the name of political correctness. It's disgusting how far they take it; "oh don't worry about this Islamic attack that killed 100+ people, Christians do it too". Realize how insensitive and ridiculous this sounds? And that's what you're doing. Islamic terrorism doesn't matter to you. You're still warped up about slain natives from 500 years ago. I mean, screw the poor, dead, modern day Christians, atheists and even Muslims killed under Islam. Because the KKK, the inquisition and crusades matter more, right? Please be a bit more rational and coherent. That's all I'm asking of you.

The principles which empires were built on was fault and they are long gone , but the principles which religions were built on still exist  . That is the difference.
Good point. And finally we agree. However, you know that Islam is straightforward. Judaeo-Christianity is not and it's more contradicting (from the barbaric Torah laws to the pacifist Sermon on the Mount). You can still find peaceful elements to it, thanks to Jesus and the New Testament. Whereas with Muhammad and the Hadith, there are barely positive verses (or at least prominent ones which "stand out"). Can you at least agree with that?

They are as i said equally dangerous , One has power and one does not . You certainly do not want to get into the reason for separation of church and the state do you ?
Again, that's like saying cancer and the influenza are equally bad. Today we can easily cure influenza, but can you say it's as bad as cancer because in history the flu was more fatal? Of course not. That's the thing with modern Christianity and Islam. ;)

Please, Christianity is just not as equally dangerous. Christianity has power in the Vatican. I don't see them murdering people. Whereas Saudi Arabia does that under Islam and Shariah. Greece, Iceland Armenia and Malta are predominantly Christian and behold their peacefulness. Get over your love for your native religion. Amazing how you're trivializing its atrocities. Why do you do this? 

surely not and i have no clue why would you even say something like that and somehow is it funny for you ?
Okay, so you agree that Christianity has different fundamentals than Islam. Finally we're getting somewhere.

Why why :) , You want to pick and choose what you want from Christianity and I'm telling you can not do that . It is a package deal .Millions of Christians would disagree with you and you are merely trying clean up what you believe is wrong with Christianity by cherry picking . it does not work like that my friend and do not even bother trying . Even Christians would disagree with you .
But whether you like it or not, Jesus is still a positive character overall. Why the hell would Christians seem him as otherwise and disagree with me? Lmao. And I told you that Christianity is a contradicting, flexible and contrived religion. You can call yourself a Christian and follow the Torah (despite being Judaic), or you can call yourself a Christian and follow Jesus. At least, more and more Christians today tend to follow Jesus. And their most extreme ones rarely kill in the name of their religion, unlike you-know-who. But of course, Christianity and Islam are still equally violent religions. Screw the modern statistics, because um, the dark ages, ya know? -_-

finally a glimmer of hope :) . I will tell you what is wrong with your argument and comparison . Germany for example was a state and the principles which the state was built on at the time are long gone and they even admit the apologize for the crimes they committed . The principles the religion were built on still exist and the crime are still validate it . One is built by man and the other supposedly came from God . Big difference .
And I told you that Christianity is a complex religion and, unlike Islam, is not straightforward (read above for reference) If you want to be technical, the principles of Christianity should be centered on Jesus. Sadly Christians of the past didn't abide to that. So you can say that Christians are more violent than Christianity itself, if that makes sense now. ;)
 

nejepnerast

New member
Neon said:
And I see no difference between you and a Muslim. You're actually defending Islam in a way. Muslims do that too. Please don't be sly. You brought up the natives first. I just said Australia and UK should be bad too, considering their history. But you ignorantly threw that on religion. I told you that the natives were killed in the name of patriotism and racism. Religion wasn't the main priority. But conveniently, you ignore this because it goes against your narrative. Lol.

let me put it for you in simple terms . Colonization had nothing to do with religion but, Church in the name of God did horrible things to the colonized regions . No?

Neon said:
The Europeans just happened to be Christian. Saddam committed horrible crimes against Arabs, Kurds and even Assyrians. He didn't do it in the name of Islam. He just happened to be a Muslim. Yes, some atrocities were done in the name of god, such as witch burning, forcible conversion, but most of the acts were in the name of racism (Eurocentrism) and nationalism.

Try to separate the two and their crimes just for the sake of discussion . The state did it in the name of the state and the church committed the crime in the name of God . Both no Good , ,My focus is on the Christianity's crime which you are defending by constantly throwing other crimes committed by the state or other religions and you think that is a defense ?

Neon said:
What a horrible false equivalence about me ditching Assyria. I am Assyrian. It's my ethnicity. It won't be changed. It has nothing to do with religious violence in history. Your points and analogies are really feeble now. :giggle:

You validate and defend the crime committed by the church as a thing of the past and should just be wiped out and forgotten and my question was and still is how would you feel if we used your logic about Assyrian prosecution ? what you wrote does not answer my question . I know I'm being Sly here because neither answer would be to your advantage , but you put yourself in this situation  .

Neon said:
It is not. Christianity is not equally bad (nor good) as any other religions. Buddhism, Shintoism, Jainism and Confucianism are far more peaceful religions than Christianity. Islam is way at the bottom of the barrel. No offense, but you want all religions to be equally "crap" just so Islam won't appear that malicious in comparison (when it really is). You're an apologist to your native religion. Admit it. ;)
So you defense is that there is better, less violence , more peaceful religion (as you wrote above ) than Christianity , So Christianity is terrible in compare , but ,but  not as bad as Islam lol ?.

Neon said:
That's rich coming from someone who's been defending Islam and Muslims in the past dozen of posts. Please stop projecting - You're probably offended about what I said about Muhammad and Islam. Honestly man, you're one of the most risible Islamic apologist I've ever came across with. It's really sad, because I thought you were a smart person.

simply not true . show me . You have nothing to say or defend christainity , so you tattoo islam on me . That is the real projection :)

Religious believes in general are not d?fendable and can never be validate it with logic . To run away Christians generally will throw islam at you  . Notice the trend , every question you want to avoid or you throw islam in there . 

Neon said:
Who said I'm upset and offended? That's your way of perceiving it. Don't let the way I type make an impression of how I feel.
Defending religious believe could be frustrating and religious people tend to be touchee abit , but i'm glad you are not offended .

Neon said:
People have apologized for their wrongdoings in the past. But it depends on how long ago it was. 2000 years ago is too much, whilst 100 years is relatively recent. Glad you feel pity for us.

so there is a statue of limitation :) . You are hilarious

Neon said:
Please don't be sly. You know perfectly what I meant. I used the term "whitewashing" within the racial context, thanks to social media of 2016. I thought you meant Assyrians are only Christian because they're "whitewashed" (they're "white-fied", since Christianity is associated with Europeans). But yes, I admit that I took you the wrong way. So let's drop this one.

Not really , because it did not fit the context at all . but at least you admit it .

Neon said:
Look at Jesus and look at Muhammad. Look at modern Christian predominant countries and look at modern Islamic dominant countries. Look at how freer the former countries whilst the latter countries still implement shariah. Yep, both equally horrible religions (*sigh*). Why are you so obsessed with making Christianity as bad as Islam in today's world? So you can trivialize Islamic terrorism and shariah to fuel your agenda? You are ingenuous at best, honestly man.
All religions are not bad, let alone equally bad. .

Again you are avoiding the question by throwing multiple issue all over the place Try to focus on the question . how is me saying they are both equally bad makes me bias towards one ? Do you even understand the word bias ?

Neon said:
How cynical do you have to be to say that Confucianism or Jainism are bad religions? I told you that Islam is horrible, and you agreed with this. Christianity is a mixture of good and bad (in which I implied this). Whilst the rest, they may have more good in them than bad, even though they're still utterly false. You can say all religions are equally fake, and that's true. But equally harmful and dangerous? Just no.
Confucianism , Buddhism , Jainism are more of philosophical system and ethical teachings than religion .Try to stay on the topic of Christianity and do not hide behind the good and bad of other believes or teachings .

Neon said:
Christianity is certainly the "best" compared to Islam within the modern sense.
Are you disheartened or guilty Christianity at least made Assyrians and Armenians more civilized and nonviolent compared to what Islam did to Kurds and Turks.

How is Assyrians and Armenians are more civilized and nonviolent ? Given a chance they will slaughter every turk and kurd and arab to get their ancient land back , No ? but they have no power ,so they claim the victim status and nonviolent . give me a break and enough with superiority complex . Both side , both religion are the same in terms of violence and do not make me start quoting the so called holy books  .

Neon said:
Yeah, I'll kinda be envious too if my recent Islamic history was the more violent one.
You see , you Christians and Muslims can never have a discussion with an atheist . A christian will accuse you of being Muslim and a Muslim will accuse you of being christian because both faith are not d?fendable , so they just exchange accusation about who is the worst , Exactly the way you do it . . Perfect for each other and exactly the same . 

Neon said:
It does. That's what people part of this agenda do. They want Christianity to appear as bad as Islam just so the atrocities of Islam would appear "weaker" or trivial in the name of political correctness. It's disgusting how far they take it; "oh don't worry about this Islamic attack that killed 100+ people, Christians do it too". Realize how insensitive and ridiculous this sounds? And that's what you're doing. Islamic terrorism doesn't matter to you. You're still warped up about slain natives from 500 years ago. I mean, screw the poor, dead, modern day Christians, atheists and even Muslims killed under Islam. Because the KKK, the inquisition and crusades matter more, right? Please be a bit more rational and coherent. That's all I'm asking of you.
So should we just ignore the atrocities of Christianity just to make it look better then ? I mean that itself constitute weakness does not it ? That is political correctness if you even know what that mean .
Mention any Islamic atrocities and as an atheist i will not deny it or try to find an excuse for it like you do  , But any time Christian atrocities are mentioned you immediately turn the subject to islam as a way to defend yourself and your faith and you think that you are being  rational and coherent :). So you admit indirectly that Christianity as a whole is a terrible religion , but you are upset because it is compared to islam ? Seriously ?, that is what is upsetting you lol . So let us say islam is 100% bad what grade would you give Christianity as a whole and do not pick and choose ? 50% ? That is still does not make it good does it ? and you are an atheist ?

Neon said:
Good point. And finally we agree. However, you know that Islam is straightforward. Judaeo-Christianity is not and it's more contradicting (from the barbaric Torah laws to the pacifist Sermon on the Mount). You can still find peaceful elements to it, thanks to Jesus and the New Testament. Whereas with Muhammad and the Hadith, there are barely positive verses (or at least prominent ones which "stand out"). Can you at least agree with that?.

here we go about how islam is bad again lol . You avoided the question again and used islam as a cover again . 

I promise i will make a special post just to talk about how f...cked up islam is , but can we talk Christianity without islam for now and can we talk about it as a whole without cherry picking . Yes certainly all religions have some good aspects and Christianity is no different .

Neon said:
Again, that's like saying cancer and the influenza are equally bad. Today we can easily cure influenza, but can you say it's as bad as cancer because in history the flu was more fatal? Of course not. That's the thing with modern Christianity and Islam. ;).

I love your analogy :), both religions are diseases and bad for human . I could not have said it better  . I will go with Ebola vs Polio

Neon said:
Please, Christianity is just not as equally dangerous. Christianity has power in the Vatican. I don't see them murdering people. Whereas Saudi Arabia does that under Islam and Shariah. Greece, Iceland Armenia and Malta are predominantly Christian and behold their peacefulness. Get over your love for your native religion. Amazing how you're trivializing its atrocities. Why do you do this? 

It is what it is and every atrocity committed proves my point and even the holy books proves what i say . Vatican as you said are a bunch of assholes who are in the business of making money and they are the richest non profit organization in the entire world . Why would they want to sacrifice all that ? if peace makes money for them then it is peace and if war makes money for them then it is war . I has been like this for them throughout history .

Again do not just throw mud . Show me how i trivialized Islamic atrocities .


Neon said:
Okay, so you agree that Christianity has different fundamentals than Islam. Finally we're getting somewhere.

Nooo , I was referring to your insinuation that somehow killing for Jesus makes you crazy and killing for mohamad makes the killing somehow valid . It is non sense and it is only in your head . Millions have been killed in the name of mohamd and jesus . What was the reason ? let me guess , misunderstanding of the words of mohamad and jesus . You see how similar you are ?

Neon said:
But whether you like it or not, Jesus is still a positive character overall.

You mean the Fictional Characters of Jesus ? Spongebob is awesome too

Neon said:
Why the hell would Christians seem him as otherwise and disagree with me? Lmao. And I told you that Christianity is a contradicting, flexible and contrived religion. You can call yourself a Christian and follow the Torah (despite being Judaic), or you can call yourself a Christian and follow Jesus. At least, more and more Christians today tend to follow Jesus. And their most extreme ones rarely kill in the name of their religion, unlike you-know-who. But of course, Christianity and Islam are still equally violent religions. Screw the modern statistics, because um, the dark ages, ya know?
Nothing new here . All you are saying Christianity is good and islam is bad .I would advice you to avoid big words if you do not know what it means exactly . It makes your response contradictory and i do not want to get into correcting you .

One question though , Do you believe Christianity came from God ? I mean  the virgin merry , Son of God thing  ?

Neon said:
And I told you that Christianity is a complex religion and, unlike Islam, is not straightforward (read above for reference) If you want to be technical, the principles of Christianity should be centered on Jesus. Sadly Christians of the past didn't abide to that. So you can say that Christians are more violent than Christianity itself, if that makes sense now. ;)
No it does not make sense . Again nothing new 
 

Cascade

Active member
Ezidi Kurd said:
I don't know what is wrong with you, but you have some trouble with reality and facts. You are in denial. Neolithic Levant Farmers and Neolithic Iranid/Aryan Farmers were 2 separate races. They had nothing in common with each other, only some same very, very ancient homo sapien ancestors. They belonged to 2 very different races.
They are not two separate races. They are two distinct ethnic groups. You're just ashamed and in denial about the fact that you have relations to those who came out of Africa more recently than you did. Just build a bridge and get over it.

It is not about the colour of your skin. It is all about the genes and genetic markers.
Genetic markers from 9000+ years ago. Lmao, if you're such a technical purist call yourself African, because you came from there too in prehistory. But that goes against your agenda, so you won't admit it. Lol...

It doens't matter with whom you are mixed, but how MUCH you are mixed. Assyrians are VERY MUCH mixed with everybody in the Middle East. Assyrians are VERY mixed people, period.
Coming from someone who has South Asian in them. Who knows how much Dravidian and Australoid blood is in you (as they originate from South Asia). Not that it's a bad thing, but you gotta face the fact that you're mixed too. Assyrians are entirely Mesopotamian with portions of Caucasian and lower Middle Eastern. We're made up by our surroundings. That's normal for an ethnic group. "Mixed" is having subsaharan African, Mongoloid and Nordic or something. That would be like Egyptian and Brazilian peoples, NOT US. Assyrians purely originate from one region. Stop being so ignorant and biased.

Assyrians are Semitic or AFRO-Asiatic. Proto-Semites were partly (East) African. Semtic DNA is partly African. Assyrians are more than 50% Semitic.
Is there something wrong with your brain? You completely forgotten what I said about Shem and the Bible. You speak too much like Muslim or Christian who think we come from Shem. Very foolish of you to, yet again, abide to the biblical genealogy. Lmao. Please tell me that you're a Muslim in disguise and I won't even argue with you. There is no such thing as "Semitic DNA", because that's a language family my ignorant friend.

Since you have short term memory loss - "Semitic people" is not an ethnic or racial group, it's a linguistic term that refers to a wide variety of ethnic groups, some of whom share much more in common with Indo-European groups (genetically and culturally) than other Semitic people. It not a genetic term. There's also a very clear difference between northern Semitic people (who inhabited the Levant and Mesopotamia before the spread of Islam) and southern Semitic people (who originate in the Arabian peninsula). Semites range from Ethiopians to Assyrians. Assyrians are closer to Armenians than they are to Saudis, Iraqis are closer to Persians than they are to Yemenis, Ethiopians are closer to other East Africans than they are to Lebanese. Go figure.

Therefore Assyrians have much , much, much more African DNA in them than Kurds South Asian DNA. Most of the South Asian auDNA in Kurds is from the Neolithic Aryan/Iranid Farmers. Neolithic Iranian Farmers had much more of the so called South Asian auDNA. So, so called South Asian auDNA in Aryans is NOT from the recent times. I think it is very old auDNA and has something to do with the archaic Y-DNA hg. R* people.
No sh!t Sherlock. Kurd and South Asians are far to the east, so of course us and even southern Europeans would have more African DNA than yous. But again you're using data from 9000 years. Because it's reliable so much today. Use modern day results and you'll see that we have no traces of African. But of course you won't, it goes against your "Afro-African" narrative. Lol.

P.S. Are the coiled-haired, black skinned Hausa people from Nigeria the same race as us because they speak an Afro-Asiatic language? Your logic is pathetic. :giggle:
 
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