A NEW WAR

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

Radical Islam SHOULD be anyone that is determined to kill based on religion or race, period.... or I should say "Religious Radicals" or "Religous Fanatic Murderers". Call it what you will.

If you can not love your neighbor, forgive and forget, or negotiate terms ... and all you want is THE DESTRUCTION your enemies (ie. Israel, USA, etc) then you are a radical, period.

There can not be peace in the Middle East as long as radical elements exist. There are Israeli militias that don't report to the IDF as well, but they can be controlled and even eliminated because in the end they don't want the complete and total destruction of Islam. They just want to be left alone.

You can not negotiate with someone who is determined to kill you, period.

 

[ASHOOR]

coincident or what?  21 people are arrested in Britain, after being suspected of plotting to blow up several airplans bound for the US from the UK.

Possibly thousands of lives have been saved.  If convicted, these suspects should either be hanged or sent to their home country.

ASHOOR

 

[Whatever]

coincident or what?? 21 people are arrested in Britain, after being suspected of plotting to blow up several airplans bound for the US from the UK.

Possibly thousands of lives have been saved.? If convicted, these suspects should either be hanged or sent to their home country.

ASHOOR

They are British born. This IS their home country.

I can't even begin to comment on the posts above cos they actually fill me with anger that people are so black and white and can't understand the complexity of the situation.

Good luck to anyone who thinks the world's problems can be solved by bombs, guns and nukes. Anyone who believes this, in my opinion, is actually insane. Or dumb. Most likely both.

 

[baklawa]

Putting our feelings about Hezballah aside, let's face reality -- they have one of the most organized and well-funded social welfare programs in the region, if not the world.  International aid agencies in Lebanon have marveled at how efficiently Hezballah has provided during this war.  The reason why they are popular in Lebanon -- even among some Christians -- has been their role in helping those in poverty, a group normally ignored by Middle Eastern governments.  THIS, my friends, is how you win supporters -- by providing the basic necessities such as food, shelter, clothing, medicine, education, etc.  Not by dropping a 500-ton bomb on some God-foresaken village.

 

[charlie]

Good luck to anyone who thinks the world's problems can be solved by bombs, guns and nukes. Anyone who believes this, in my opinion, is actually insane. Or dumb. Most likely both.

Seconded.

I still dont know why the West think that by imposing democracy in the Middle East they will all of a sudden get peace and stability around the world?

Its been clearly demonstrated that when the people in the middle east get a chance to vote, they vote for the likes of Hamas and Hezbolah.
Maybe it shows that the only way they can get their point across is by turning to the so called "terrorist groups" because they see these groups are actually redressing some of the imbalances that exist in the Middle East.

The US can export as many democracies, and drop as many bombs as it wants but until the West actually starts to take on the underlying issues, such as the Palestinian issue, the Golan Heights, and now Lebanon, these groups will continue to exisist and grow in number and exploit the fact that the US arms and funds Israel.

 

[Free_Assyria]

"Fighting terrorism is like a goal keeper in football doesn?t matter how many you save it?s the one that gets passed you that counts"

 

[RadRides]

coincident or what?  21 people are arrested in Britain, after being suspected of plotting to blow up several airplans bound for the US from the UK.

Possibly thousands of lives have been saved.  If convicted, these suspects should either be hanged or sent to their home country.

ASHOOR

They are British born. This IS their home country.

I can't even begin to comment on the posts above cos they actually fill me with anger that people are so black and white and can't understand the complexity of the situation.

Good luck to anyone who thinks the world's problems can be solved by bombs, guns and nukes. Anyone who believes this, in my opinion, is actually insane. Or dumb. Most likely both.

I don't think anyone is that "insane" or "dumb."  But if you were on one of those planes and you had a Mid Eastern man begin to assemble a liquid explosive next to you, you'd sh*t your pants.  It's funny how we can all speak for those who are actually doing the real work.  We just bicker like old hags around tea and crumpets.  Myself included. 

 

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

Whatever - I didn't say we need to just keep dropping bombs. I said our enemy is radical Islam. And we aren't going to win simply by bombing them.

We need to help the moderate Muslims, empower them to bring about change in their own religion and governemnts..... open people's eyes that VIOLENCE can not be justified by a RELIGION. I don't want to start a holy war. I want to kill the idea that a holy war should be fought to begin with.

The Middle Eastern people need to know where we stand. We stand for freedom. We will not tolerate radicalism. Not by Muslism, not by Jews, not by anyone. We're not fighting a war on terror. WE'RE FIGHTING RADICALS AND THE IDEA THAT THEIR ENEMIES MUST BE DESTROYED WHICH IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. Therefor no political solution exists. No military solution exists. The only way is through HOLLYWOOD pretty much... or something to that affect. You need to WESTERNIZE these people... TEACH THEM TO LIVE LIFE... not to kill eachother. Or another way would be to bring moderate arabs to the forefront... a women's rights movement perhaps... or helping moderate clerics renounce violence and embrace peace.... something to that extent... HELP the oppressed and the ones that just want to live in peace get rid of the radical element from their culture.

We don't need a regime change, we need an ideological change... and democracy doesn't hurt of course.

 

[Whatever]

coincident or what?  21 people are arrested in Britain, after being suspected of plotting to blow up several airplans bound for the US from the UK.

Possibly thousands of lives have been saved.  If convicted, these suspects should either be hanged or sent to their home country.

ASHOOR

They are British born. This IS their home country.

I can't even begin to comment on the posts above cos they actually fill me with anger that people are so black and white and can't understand the complexity of the situation.

Good luck to anyone who thinks the world's problems can be solved by bombs, guns and nukes. Anyone who believes this, in my opinion, is actually insane. Or dumb. Most likely both.

I don't think anyone is that "insane" or "dumb."  But if you were on one of those planes and you had a Mid Eastern man begin to assemble a liquid explosive next to you, you'd sh*t your pants.  It's funny how we can all speak for those who are actually doing the real work.  We just bicker like old hags around tea and crumpets.  Myself included. 

It's funny that someone ignorant and ill informed may not want to sit next to you or Born because you look Middle Eastern...They are as much British as you are American.

Of course i wouldn't be happy being sat next to a terrorist on a plane - that's a given. I was just saying that we can't fight terrorism through violence. I don't agree that the USA have or are making the world a better place.

What exactly has the 'war on terror' achieved so far other than making people more angrier and more vengeful?

 

[Whatever]

Whatever - I didn't say we need to just keep dropping bombs. I said our enemy is radical Islam. And we aren't going to win simply by bombing them.

We need to help the moderate Muslims, empower them to bring about change in their own religion and governemnts..... open people's eyes that VIOLENCE can not be justified by a RELIGION. I don't want to start a holy war. I want to kill the idea that a holy war should be fought to begin with.

The Middle Eastern people need to know where we stand. We stand for freedom. We will not tolerate radicalism. Not by Muslism, not by Jews, not by anyone. We're not fighting a war on terror. WE'RE FIGHTING RADICALS AND THE IDEA THAT THEIR ENEMIES MUST BE DESTROYED WHICH IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. Therefor no political solution exists. No military solution exists. The only way is through HOLLYWOOD pretty much... or something to that affect. You need to WESTERNIZE these people... TEACH THEM TO LIVE LIFE... not to kill eachother. Or another way would be to bring moderate arabs to the forefront... a women's rights movement perhaps... or helping moderate clerics renounce violence and embrace peace.... something to that extent... HELP the oppressed and the ones that just want to live in peace get rid of the radical element from their culture.

We don't need a regime change, we need an ideological change... and democracy doesn't hurt of course.

You can't force people to change their beliefs. And you know what - bombing Lebanon has only increased the support for Hezbollah. The sad thing is we all predicted it. Oppression, disproportionate force, war crimes, genocide, mass civilian deaths = massive recruiting officers for any 'freedom fighting' forces be it the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah

Secondly democracy - or shall i say the USA concept of democracy CANNOT be imposed on people who do not want it. You cannot impose it on them and then expect their culture, mindset, beliefs etc to fall into line. You cannot change hundreds, thousands of years worth of conditioning by forcing some sort of puppet democracy in a country - especially in Arab countries that are tribal.

 

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

So what do yuo suggest.... we just sit by while radicals force the submission and conversion of more and more jews/christians OR kill them all off until it gets to be so big of a problem we can't even defend ourselves?

How would you suggest we stop radical islam?

Because if you say WE SHOULDN'T STOP RADICAL ISLAM AT ALL.... I will never agree to that. I'd rather bomb the whole fucking middle east then let them spread radical islam to the rest of the world.

 

[RadRides]

I'm not from Texas, nor a member of the NRA.  I am a tax paying U.S. citizen who only cares for the safety of me and my own.  That's all.  I don't want innocent people dying.  Do you at least believe that I am not a proponent of violence? 

I would however love to hear your suggestions on how we combat terrorism.  Diplomacy?  Enlighten us. 

 

[ISay]

Oppression, disproportionate force, war crimes, genocide, mass civilian deaths = massive recruiting officers for any 'freedom fighting' forces be it the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah

You are describing here the situation of the Assyrian people in recent history.? Although we haven't resorted to "violence"? but that still leaves us without an "Assyria" in Bet Nahren.? Go figure!

 

[MXJSPH]

Well, I'm not planning to go blow myself up and take other people along with me for a patch of dirt in the middle east. I agree with the minority opinion though, violence isn't the answer.. There is no point, because what Israel is doing as an example, wont exactly make those radical islamic people think.. Ok hold up, they are killing us, we should stop. They will just be spurred on more, and as Whatever said, more will join their ranks.

The situation here in Britain is a dubious one. With all the breaking news, I was at first shocked and angry at such terrible plans. However, upon reflection I was quite skeptical of their sincerity. On the whole, all the hate that takes form via these various bombings and attacks is an amalgamation of religion, pursuit of power (and all its methods and devices) and initial racial or even religiously influenced cultural discrimination.

To simply bomb or just 'defend' (which is also a loosely coined term for a retributive attack) will not 'cure' any problems, as was mentioned before somewhere. Also, not one post here can settle the situation, relieve the tensions or seek suitable compromisations, one would have to write dissertations to outline the problems, the strife, and the roots of such vile hatred. The problem(s) are so much bigger than the news headline, but they dont want us to look at that properly, they want us to just nod our heads and keep them hollow.

 

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

YOU KNOW WHAT. I'm so proud of MR. BUSH today for saying that we are fighting ISLAMIC FASCISTS!!!!! No more then 1 hour later the North American Islamic Federation or whatever was on TV critisizing George Bush for saying he's fighting Islam. WE"RE NOT FIGHTING ISLAM... JUST THE CRAZY ONES! I'm so sick of this political correctness bullsh*t. And you know what???? I'm sick of all these f*cking Islamic Federations and Anti-Descriminatory Islamic bullsh*t organizations for saying we're prejudiced against them. Instead of focusing their energy on changing our perception of Islam... WHY DON"T THEY FOCUS ON BRINGING REFORM IN THEIR STUPID RELIGION? OR AT LEAST BREAK AWAY AND SAY "HEY WE"RE NOT MUSLIM, WE"RE SONS OF MOHOMMED" or some sh*t... That they don't approve of violence. Why dont' these assholes speak against the Radical Clerics that tell people to strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up? All they can do is b*tch and moan that we're prejudice against them. Well f*ck them and their f*cked up religion. Let them critisize their religion leaders and reform their religion. If they don't give a sh*t about Islam, why should I?

 

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

Again MJay you're in the same situation as Whatever... and I'm not nessasarily disagreeing with you. Perhaps violence is not the answer (or at least not the most EFFICIENT use of our resources)............ BUT at the end of the day, Radical Islam which is intolerant of anyone else and only wants to see the Jews and Westerners destroyed with no provisions or compromises for their survival... there is no negotiating with them. They want the entire Earth to be one islamic regime, period. This has to be stopped at all cost. Do you not agree?

What is your solution to stop the propogation of this CULT of radical Islam?

 

[ASHOOR]

Best solution is to have a mix of every solution suggested here:  Democrataizing the region +  Bombing the worst elements, including top Alqaeda members +  Winning the hearts and minds of the Muslim world.


ASHOOR

 

[shamirum]

Wow! I read through some of this and will get back to the rest later when this week from hell is finally over for me.

Anyway, I saw a few "interesting" insults in there, not terrible, but just keep it calm everyone and this thread can stay in its place with no modifications or locks.

And I must say to all of you: great discussion. I think you are getting closer to the core of some of these issues, and that's wonderful; keep it up!

-S

 

[RadRides]

I agree with all to a point.  Mjay is certainly right as well in saying that none of us can really come up with a clear solution to this.  The whole story is not being told by the media and it's horrfying.  I watched Obsession and I was dumfounded.  Clerics I have never heard of are preaching "Moat al amreeka," death to America.  If this type of language is getting to even the most impoverished places on earth where islamsists can fuel the fire of hate, we are indeed in for some more horrific events.  I was never for violence, I was taught better than that, as are most children with inherited morals.  We are truly in something extraordinary with 200 million, if not more radical Islamists taking aim at the UK, the US, and other western nations.  I don't care for politics, (funny I should say that) but rather nervous for the future.  I say we all join MI5 and get to the bottom of this.  Who's with me?

 

[Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel]

Where's Whatever and MJay?

Why is it whenever someone who opposes the war against terrorism or tries to ignore the problem of radical islam is confronted......they just bury their head in the sand rather then give a constructive response on how to solve the problem?